AII POW-MIA - Senate Select Committee 64

Appendix 6 : Selected Excerpts From Hearing Testimony - Part 5

Committee Grassley 06/24/92

...expecting calm and order on this issue os like expecting cars and dogs to live in perfect harmony... the Chairman and Vice Chairman of this Committee have done next to the impossible in terms of keeping this Committee together, to keep it focused and conducting its oversight.

Committee Grassley 11/15/91

The hearings have been, in my view, quite successful and surprisingly so to me because, Mr. President, I must admit that at first I had reservations about the utility of the committee's work starting with hearings... for fear that precious time would be diverted from the investigation aspects of the committee's work.

Committee Kerrey 09/24/92

This Committee could very easily itself have moved in a direction where it accomplished nothing. I believe if we ended today, which some would argue we should -- if we ended today, this Committee will already have accomplished a great deal. Mr. Chairman, I have undying admiration and appreciation both for you and for Vice Chairman Smith for pursuing this, and I want to pay special tribute to, again, Senator Grassley, whose interest in declassification was early, was active, was strong, and I think has provided enormous benefit to the American people.

Committee Kerry 11/06/91

...the time has come for these kinds of allegations to be laid on the table, and for the sources not to be hidden from the Committee, at least. There is no way the Committee can proceed without that kind of information being put in front of it. So I ask you and anyone else who has that kind of information -- and you can hold this Senator and Senator Smith accountable, and I am sure you will if something happens... we rely on your cooperation to make that happen.

Committee Kerry 12/03/92

That process of finding answers is what this Committee is all about. I can speak for every member of this Committee when I say that determination will continue on an individual level and with the other standing committees of this Senate even after this Committee itself has opened the doors on this issue and has ceased to exist.

Committee Kerry 01/22/92

I hope you also appreciate that when I push you or when I push the line of questioning, it is without regard to who is sitting in front of me. I am going to push both sides as much as possible to be able to help the Committee make its judgments.

Committee Kerry 01/22/92

[Intelligence service employees] are not permitted to deny information to this committee on the basis of that [secrecy] oath... we intend to put them under oath and depose them, and we will subpoena them if necessary. So in terms of enticement, they are invited today to come forward with an understanding that if they do not come forward on their own, the greater likelihood is that the committee is going to find an opportunity for them to have to appear.

Committee Kerry 01/21/92

I want people to understand, again, that the committee is not withholding information or deep-sixing anything. All of it will be made public. But the Committee feels that when it is given a name, as a matter of investigative integrity it is sometimes more important for the Committee to be able to get investigators to the people before they are publicly identified so that there is less time or less capacity for fabrication of a story, and so that the Committee has an opportunity to determine whether there are any outside pressures or other influences that might be affecting that person's capacity to give us a straight story.

Committee Kerry 09/22/92

I know this is difficult, I wish there was a way to make it easy, and it is not, and we acknowledge that. But we are not here seeking to re-fight the Vietnam War. We are not trying to renegotiate the peace agreement or to reopen wounds of that era, as difficult as it is to avoid them... We also are not trying to question dedication or patriotism or commitment to the task that existed back in 1972.

All Americans of a certain age, whether Senators or former Government officials, POW families, veterans, or just plain citizens, bring to any discussion of Vietnam a set of emotions and memories, some of which may be among the strongest and most vivid of a lifetime. We cannot ignore or deny those memories, or simply wish them out of existence, but neither should we let them control or influence the purpose or integrity of this committee's work...

We remain in the process of gathering information and insights and trying to understand why certain things were done, why certain things were not done, what options were available to those who had the tough task of making decisions at one of the toughest times in American history.

Committee Kerry 09/24/92

...folks, this issue was not created by the United States Congress 20 years later. This issue is an issue of grassroots momentum. There is not a place I have gone in the last years in this country where someone has not come up to me and said, why are you not doing anything on this? Where are the answers? And the families, particularly, have carried this with them for these 20 years.

Now, at a time in our government when American citizens feel that the government has broken most bonds of trust with every citizen, it is hardly appropriate for us to just turn our backs and say, this is not relevant. I view these hearings not just as an effort to get to the truth of what happened. I view them also as an effort by elected officials to try to prove that we can do our job, and that we can reestablish that sense of credibility between citizens who expect us to ask tough question.

Committee Kerry 12/03/92

I hope we not limit our focus this morning to the past. A big part of this Committee's job is to translate lessons learned and experiences that have been felt into recommendations for future action and into our understanding as a Committee so that we can share that understanding with the American people.

Committee Kerry 11/15/91

I want to ensure all people who are interested in the public aspect of this inquiry that the fact that we are not having a public hearing does not mean we are hiding anything, nor does it mean that we are not doing anything. It means we are going to proceed to do our homework. There clearly will be public sessions as we proceed, and all data that we can conceivably make available to the public -- with the exception of compromising national security, as a judgment made by 12 United States Senators -- will be made public as we proceed.

Committee Kerry 11/15/91

This Committee is not going to tolerate folks who want to use us as some kind of springboard or platform for wild-eyed, cock-eyed theories that have no basis in fact whatsoever. We are going to be tough with respect to that, and we have a process set up to try to do it -- but we do not want at the end of this process anybody who has legitimate information to feel that this committee was not receptive to it.

Committee McCain 09/24/92

...the fact is that you and Senator Smith have conducted these hearings in a fair and unbiased manner...

Committee Mooney 01/22/92

Most of the negotiations on this issue have been by policy makers. They go there with a specific opinion and they're not going to breach from that. For the first time, you're going to have Senators going there. You guys know how to wheel and deal. You know how to compromise. Maybe this is the proper approach... Maybe if you would go there with this attitude of specific knowledge and talk to these people and show them respect and gain respect from them, it might open doors.

Committee Mooney 01/22/92

...when this committee was formed, and it was announced that this committee would investigate the MIA/POW issue, I had doubts, serious doubts. Because in six years, I had not one success. All I had was criticism and to be debunked. When I was asked to visit with your committee people last week, I was eager to come because I had to find out for myself what this committee was about. Was it going to be another dog and pony show, or were you for real?

I was deposed for a day and a half. It was professional, it was thorough, it was incisive, it was tough, and in one particular case it was painful. But it was the best deposition or best questioning I've had to date. Based on that, I am sitting here to tell you, and to tell everybody who is watching or listening, that you are for real. You will get to the bottom of this issue. And I am willing to pass the torch on to you. I will keep the matches just in case I have to light up again, but the torch now belongs in your hands.

That deposition proved to me that you will fulfill your promise to leave no stone unturned, to find not my truth or anybody else's truth, but the truth. I hope those listening who have knowledge will believe that and come forward.

Committee Mooney 01/22/92

Over the years, I've had many people call me from the business; 99 percent of them will not identify themselves, and they say one thing consistently: "I will not come forward because I do not think you can win... "They feel they will not be believed. I think if this committee applies its mission with honor, with dignity, and with clear objectives, the people will step forward... I hope they do, because it is that important. This is our best chance and this is, in my opinion, our last chance.

Committee Mooney 01/22/92

I'm just the tip of the iceberg... You need more than people like me, people who work in the field and who have the first blush with intelligence. You have to get beyond us, you have to get up to where the intelligence is interpreted and used for policy and politics.

Committee Quinn 11/15/91

As a citizen, I sort of grieve over the fact that we have this problem so long after the war. It still is a sore that has not healed and has not been dealt with. I think that what you and the Committee are doing is going a long direction in letting our citizens know exactly what is involved.

Committee Smith 09/21/92

Vice Chairman Smith: The American people, I believe, are a great people, and I think they will accept anything as long as they are told the truth... There could be 500 people in Vietnam and Laos. There could be none. But the point is: the reason why the Committee is in existence, the reason why you are here, and the reason why the debate is still raging is because the American people do not believe that their government has told them the truth...

Committee Steadman 12/02/92

...Perhaps because the issue has been so contentious over the years, maybe Congress didn't exercise its oversight role as strongly as it could have. And this panel, this Committee, has reversed that, and in doing so you've brought the issue squarely in front of the American public and squarely on the doorstep of the Southeast Asian governments.

You've also brought information forward which allows the American public now to make informed judgments about this issue, and I think your final report should state whether Congress should continue its investigation. You should make an informed judgment on that, whether investigation is required, further investigation is required, further oversight is required, or perhaps both are required.

Committee Tighe 06/24/92

I believe that you are compiling the largest and most comprehensive body of evidence on the subject of missing in military action that has ever been assembled.

Committee Vessey 06/25/92

...more needs to be made public and I commend the Committee. I think I saw the broadcast of your Southeast Asian trip, those were superb. The clips from those, that trip and the American public desperately needs to see the whole picture rather than sensational tidbits that come out. So I certainly commend the Committee for its work and I think the Committee's report eventually will turn out to be one of the most important documents we have in the public record.

Committee Grassley 06/24/92

Committee Grassley 11/15/91

Committee Kerrey 09/24/92

Committee Kerry 11/06/91

Committee Kerry 12/03/92

Committee Kerry 01/22/92

Committee Kerry 01/21/92

Conspiracy Andrews 12/03/92

...I believe that neither this Committee nor the American people can expect that the whispers of conspiracy will ever go away. I am convinced that no matter how many files are opened, no matter how many witnesses are interviewed, no matter how many crash sites are sifted through, there will always be those who will see it in their own selfish interest to inject distrust into this issue. The antidote to this is openness.

Conspiracy Baker 08/12/92

I cannot think of a single thing that suggests to me that there was a conspiracy of silence or any active conspiracy or any other kind of conspiracy...

Conspiracy Bell 11/06/91

I don't think there's been a cover-up, sir, but I think it's possible that information was not acted upon.

Conspiracy Burch 11/06/91

The media have been whispered off the track with anonymous comments that there are no live POWs...

Conspiracy Christmas 06/25/92

Mr. Chairman, my experience is that most people who become well-informed on this issue have no trouble agreeing that the accounting for our missing men means obtaining information from Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. Those who maintain that there is some secret set of files being kept by misguided U.S. Government personnel intent on maintaining some bizarre cover-up are deluding themselves and the American people.

The answers are in Southeast Asia and that is where the U.S. Government is, correctly in my view, putting its emphasis.

Conspiracy Clapper 12/01/92

To suggest that we are somehow part of a conspiracy is certainly absurd, if not insulting. I take it as a personal insult that anyone would suggest that I've had any part in a conspiracy.

Conspiracy Ford 11/15/91

There is no conspiracy to purge records. The Department of Defense does not maintain fingerprint records. The FBI is the sole agency with that responsibility.

Conspiracy Kassebaum 6/25/92

I am just not one who believes in conspiracy theories, but I think unfortunately because we have been such a long time coming to terms with this and doing it in a way and being as forthright as possible we have created and added a great deal of sorrow and confusion to the process.

Conspiracy Kerry 11/15/91

I do not, in God's name, know how you can begin to do this process unless we will trust some people on the ground in Vietnam to build some relationships and make some judgments about those relations. Somewhere along the line here, somebody has got to begin to believe that not every American working for the United States Government is going to become part of some process to hide Americans in Vietnam.

Conspiracy Kerry 12/01/92

Chairman Kerry: ...in any of your review or at any time that you have been in contact with this issue, did you find any evidence whatsoever to suggest to you that there was a conscious cover-up on this issue or conspiracy to withhold it from proper analysis and pursuit? Mr. Wiand?

Wiand: No...

Hargis: No...

Nagy: No...

Brooks: Absolutely not...

Gaines: Absolutely not...

Conspiracy Kissinger 09/22/92

What has happened to this country that a Congressional committee could be asked to inquire whether any American official of whatever administration would fail to move heaven and earth to fight for the release of American POWs and for an accounting of the missing? Can anyone seriously believe that any honorable public official would neglect America's servicemen, and especially those who suffered so much for their country or, even worse, arrange for a conspiracy to obscure the fate of the prisoners left behind?

Personally, I have no proof whether Americans, live Americans, were kept behind by Hanoi. The Vietnamese are certainly capable of such a cynical act, and of lying about it. If any prisoners were held back, however, there can be only one guilty party.

Conspiracy Kissinger 09/22/92

There is no excuse, two decades after the fact, for anyone to imply that the last five Presidents from both parties, their White House staffs, Secretaries of State and Defense, and career diplomatic and military services either knowingly or negligently failed to do everything they could to recover and identify all of our prisoners and MIAs.

Conspiracy Lord 09/21/92

Chairman Kerry: ...But as major public policy makers of that period and also public servants helping the American public understand this and looking at this can you understand why still today there are people who believe that they were misled, that the government was in a conspiracy, that they were lied to and that they have been led down the path over the years after those comments, given the evidence, is it understandable?

Lord: I think it's understandable. I think some of the terms you used are unfair, but I can understand why people might harbor these doubts.

Conspiracy Lundy 11/06/91

...my father had top-secret security clearance, nuclear, intelligence... How could there not be fingerprints in my father's file?... there is a letter in his file that says, 'attached are forms and fingerprint cards on the above subject'... This is a smoking-gun letter that there is cover-up in our government.

Conspiracy McCain 09/24/92

Sen. McCain: Do you believe that there was any conspiracy to cover up the existence of any live Americans either in Laos or anywhere in Southeast Asia?

Secord: No, sir, I don't. I've never seen any evidence of that.

Sen. McCain: Do you believe that it would have been possible, without the knowledge of a number of military officers and enlisted people such as yourself who were in some way in the loop?

Secord: No. There are so many people in that loop that it would not have been possible, in my opinion.

Conspiracy Perroots 08/12/92

Sen. McCain: In order for a cover-up to be successful as has been alleged, it would have taken the active participation of hundreds if not thousands of military personnel?

Perroots: Yes, sir.

Conspiracy Perroots 12/01/92

...most emphatically, Mr. Chairman, the allegation of a cover-up or a conspiracy, [is] the most serious invalid, criticism.

Conspiracy Sieverts 06/25/92

...a great many dedicated people... worked on this subject for many years, and we are well aware that the passage of time has not healed the wounds or brought comfort to the families whose hopes have been repeatedly raised and dashed.

Conspiracy Vessey 06/25/92

Sen. McCain: Have you ever seen any evidence of any conspiracy or cover-up?

Vessey: No, sir, I have not.

Sen. McCain: Did you when you were in your position as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?

Vessey: No, sir.

Sen. McCain: Or at any other time in your military career?

Vessey: No, sir.

Conspiracy Vessey 06/25/92

Sen. McCain: In order for there to be a conspiracy or a cover-up of this issue, do you agree with me that it would have required the active participation of hundreds of members of the military?

Vessey: Yes, sir. And I think that's an improbable sort of thing. American soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are not conspirators. It's hard to keep military secrets long enough to get the operation going along without the enemy knowing what's going on. Even at the time when we were at low ebb, we still had 100-and-some-odd people involved, and those rotated. Many of them rotated every two or three years. So I'd say the prospect or probability of a conspiracy being kept without it being blown wide open is almost zero.

Cooperation Armitage 08/12/92

Just to sum up clearly, the governments of Vietnam, Laos, and what passes for a government in Cambodia, have to open up and give full and complete access to Americans upon request, with no waiting periods, et cetera, before we can begin to put it at rest.

Cooperation Bell 11/06/91

Bell: ...I think the Vietnamese right now today are just as far along in this issue as they choose to be.

Chairman Kerry: Does that mean they could choose to be further along?

Bell: Yes, sir.

Cooperation Bell 11/06/91

To resolve these cases, as well as the live-sighting reports, we need to meet with cadre who were involved in the detention of American POWs and also to have access to Vietnam's wartime historical archives. We have had access to some records and witnesses' testimony which has matched that obtained from witnesses no longer under Vietnamese control. This is a good sign, but it is readily apparent to me, my fellow investigators, and our intelligence analysts that the Vietnamese can do more.

Cooperation Cheney 11/05/91

Vietnamese cooperation on these joint investigations has improved, but despite these improvements, we are still not satisfied with Vietnam's performance... Too often, our office finds that public pronouncements of increased cooperation by Hanoi do not produce satisfactory arrangements on the ground. Promises to cooperate on live sightings, improved helicopter transportation, and complete access to historical records remain only partially fulfilled... If we ever hope to achieve the fullest possible accounting in a reasonable period of time, Vietnamese unilateral efforts, as well as their participation in joint activities, will have to dramatically improve.

Cooperation Childress 08/12/92

...when I left, our estimate was that the Vietnamese could account for hundreds of cases easily.

Cooperation Childress 12/01/92

Chairman Kerry: I think on the enemy proselytizing materials, we do not have evidence that that actually still exists. We know they had it, but we do not know it exists today. Is that not accurate?

Mr. Childress: The original stories Hanoi said was that they had no records at all, they were eaten with termites, they were the rest. Now, as I said in my original testimony before this committee, Vietnamese dialogue with you is not evil, but it's certainly not in the western sense.

Chairman Kerry: Oh, absolutely.

Cooperation Childress 08/12/92

...Now, when I say resolve easily hundreds of cases, I mean either you either have a live prisoner, remains, or an explanation why neither is possible through archival research or the rest. And in those categories, there are many hundreds of cases they can resolve for us.

Cooperation Childress 12/01/92

Chairman Kerry: Let me say to you that there is no naivete on the part of the committee about this process and its past, you know.

Childress: Right. And we've had many denials.

Chairman Kerry: Information has been withheld. We have not always been told the truth. We understand that and we go into that with open eyes...

Cooperation Childress 12/01/92

Chairman Kerry: Imagine that when the ministry of foreign affairs in Vietnam says, oh, yes, we are going to get this stuff and we want to be helpful, but you have a lot of gnomes within the ministry of defense who only remember fighting us and are still fighting us and do not want to change, that those documents are not forthcoming. There are difficulties in that process also, I am sure you will agree.

Childress: I absolutely acknowledge those and I think we're on the right track in this sense, that the Vietnamese agreed that they would pursue unilateral efforts. Most of the progress we've had in terms of resolving cases have not come from joint efforts, have come from unilateral Vietnamese decisions. And to the extent the Vietnamese mean this and we should encourage it; we should also be prepared to underwrite it if needed.

Cooperation Christmas 06/25/92

Christmas: In the area of archival research and in the area of documents provided, there is an area where we need help, where they can, in fact, provide a great deal more. Our investigators as they go out --

Sen. McCain: What do you speculate is the reason they have not been more cooperative in that area?

Christmas: Sir, I think it is a matter, as Gen. Vessey, I thought, pointed out very well; you may, at the central government level say, this is what we are going to do. But when it comes down to action at the district or province level, that may not -- it gets the slows -- whether or not that it is going to take place.

The other one where we have difficulty is the trilateral agreements or trilateral talks and cross-border operations. That is at a standstill right now, Senator, and it's at a standstill for a number of reasons. both the Lao and the Cambodians have been very reluctant to trilateral talks. The Vietnamese based on the committee getting out there said, yes, you can go from Vietnam into Laos because, in some places, that is the only way you can get into where crash sites would have been. The Lao have disagreed with that and have said, no, we will not allow that.

They have also disagreed with trilateral talks.

So I think the point is, we are making measured progress. Can we make more? Sure we can. I think in Vietnam that progress will continue if we continue to accelerate our operations, continue to keep our folks in country face to face with the Vietnamese.

Cooperation Christmas 06/25/92

The key element of information is missing: the current location of the person or his remains. This is why we need Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia to share whatever records they possess on American prisoners and the missing, and make available for interview former members of their military units.

Cooperation Christmas 12/04/92

Chairman Kerry: So I take it, it is your judgment that we are moving down the road...

Christmas: It's certainly my judgment, sir. If you remember, we talked before about the agreements that were made between Le Mai and then Assistant Secretary Solomon -- five agreements: expanded operations, live sighting mechanism, archival research, and so forth. Of at least three of those, we have had substantial movement and substantial progress from the February of this year when those agreements were made. So there has been progress, and what we need to do, as the Admiral has said, is just keep pressing.

Cooperation Christmas 11/05/91

The Pacific Command, in conjunction with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Department of Defense, has moved quickly to capitalize on the favorable climate of cooperation in Vietnam. We plan to execute a comprehensive casualty resolution campaign on a scale which the Department of Defense has wanted to carry out since the signing of the Paris Accords in 1973, but could not because of Vietnam's intransigence.

Cooperation Clapper 12/01/92

If we are to have true resolution of these cases that so consume so many Americans, it is in the hands of the Vietnamese.

Cooperation DeStatte 12/04/92

Chairman Kerry: Are we on the road to resolving this?

DeStatte: Yes, sir. I'm quite confident. As I said earlier, I think we're getting the kind of cooperation -- I think that Vietnam's top leaders have made the decision to try to solve this issue. I think they issued the instruction to their bureaucracy to do so, and I believe that at the working level, where we are, at least the people that I've been working with, I believe we're getting the kind of cooperation, we're getting good cooperation.

I do, however, believe that there's some distance to go, and I think that if there's an obstacle, that obstacle is at the mid-level. And I believe that Vietnam's leaders can solve that problem. I think that's the proper solution.

Cooperation Ford 12/04/92

...the fact is that in many cases it's clear that the Vietnamese don't always know what they have there and that they've got a lot of valuable information. We know it's valuable, but it wasn't necessarily valuable to them or they weren't quite sure what it was.

Allowing us access into that is extremely important... We are just now getting into these archives and all of us are wanting to move forward as rapidly as we can.

Cooperation Ford 12/01/92

I frankly, in looking at that period, I think that I give the most credit to the Vietnamese. I think they sought us out.

Cooperation Ford 12/01/92

...I would argue that the reason that we have been is because we have won most of the battles of being fair and firm with the Vietnamese. And when they produce results, we have delivered, State has delivered, Defense has delivered, NSC has delivered. We have no history that if we give something to the Vietnamese for nothing, that we get reciprocal benefit from it.

Cooperation Gadoury 11/06/91

Progress has, up to this point, however, been rather disappointing in terms of results. Despite Vietnamese claims of total freedom of travel to pursue first-hand live sightings, both captive and living free, our investigator has not yet been permitted by the Vietnamese to travel outside Hanoi to complete his investigations.

Cooperation Grassley 11/06/91

...I think they [the Vietnamese Government] ought to know that we would all welcome and would not hold past history against them at all if there was a dramatic change of practice on the part of the Vietnamese Government for total cooperation along the lines of our people could go any place that they want to go.

If the Vietnamese Government came up with an American there who they previously said was not there, that we would not look at it as an opportunity for punitive action against the Vietnamese Government, but that we would look at it as an opportunity for a further opening of relations and normalization of relations.

Cooperation Griffiths 12/01/92

It was quite difficult in earlier years, and it evolved and got more effective and the priority began to be understood in the far reaches of the government. But it was not really an easy process, especially when you were building from zero.

Cooperation Kerry 12/01/92

And I would lay unfortunate odds that if we were to apply that standard to ourselves at this point in time about Vietnamese MIAs, we would be sorely wanting.

Cooperation Kerry 12/04/92

We kind of did a great, double-team effort here between General Vessey, the Committee, your efforts. But the distinction is that at that point in time the Politburo and the decisions had not been made. I sat with the General Secretary of Vietnam. I was the first United States citizen to meet with the leading official of Vietnam -- and it only happened a year and a half ago - - at which point he turns to me, and I have got to tell you I was stunned and the people with me were stunned, because he could not understand in 1991, what this issue meant, why it was real, or if we were serious. And he turned to me and he said: Senator, I do not understand this; when I was negotiating with Jimmy Carter in 1978 for normalization, nobody raised this issue with us. It was not on the table. So he had no sense that this was anything but an American trick in the 1980s and '90s to sort of find a different way to prosecute the war against Vietnam. So I went through this long explanation to him of what happened with the problems of Jimmy Carter's presidency and what happened in the desert in Iran and the sense of lack of power in the country, and along came Ronald Reagan and he made this a big issue, to his credit, and raised the consciousness, and then movies appeared and books appeared and Sly Stallone made a cult, and off we went, and it entered the American consciousness and body politic... We [sent them] a whole lot of articles and sent them information and tried to give them a sense of the reality of it.... So finally they say: Hey, you know, we did it.

Cooperation - Continued Larson 12/04/92

Chairman Kerry: Now I ask you, Admiral, General, and General, is the process corrupt? Are these people not cooperating broadly, or do you feel there is this genuine commitment to getting this process to work? The Committee wants to know the truth, not some preordained answer.

Larson: Mr. Chairman, I think their senior leadership in their central government has made a political decision to cooperate and to try to move forward. The level of that cooperation, I think we have a system in place that will test the level of that cooperation and put pressure on them to produce and evaluate how far they are willing to go. Right or wrong for what they've done for the last 20 years, I think they've made a political decision now, we've got to change and we've got to move forward, particularly in the archival research area.

Cooperation Needham 12/04/92

Chairman Kerry: General, can you speak now to the issue of the level of cooperation that you receive? Where are we? What kind of judgment can the committee make, based on your experience now, over this year, in Vietnam?

Needham: Sir, in my opinion, in the last year the cooperation in Vietnam has been steadily improving since I assumed my position in January. Recently... there have been some dramatic improvements. I think the Vietnamese could still do more, but right now we see cooperation getting better and better every day at the central level. In the field level, cooperation is mixed... in the provinces, it's mixed.

Chairman Kerry: ...You have provinces in Vietnam that were very heavily bombed, and their support to the United States is less than others...

Cooperation Needham 12/04/92

Sir, I think it is going to produce results. I think we're starting to see a little bit in Hanoi. I think it's too early to tell exactly how much we're going to get, but I believe we're off to a positive start and I'm hoping that we can -- by the information requests that Mr. DeStatte has given them, that we can lead this archival research program a little bit more to the way we want to go, which is looking at supporting the work plan and supporting cases that we want to get answers to rather than just getting information for the sake of getting information.

Cooperation Perroots 08/12/92

Vietnam can easily account for hundreds of Americans that have not yet exercised their requisite will to do so.

Cooperation Quinn 12/01/92

Mr. Chairman, the vastly improved level of cooperation is a clear indication that our policy of both sides taking a series of commensurate steps is working.

Cooperation Schweitzer 12/04/92

Following years of distrust among many of the parties trying to resolve this MIA issue, there have however now been new approaches which have taken place in Hanoi over the past few weeks and cooperation has reached a new level. But there still appear to me to be three basic questions which have remained unanswered up to this point.

The first question concerns just how much information we can hope to learn about the Americans still unaccounted for in Vietnam.

The second remaining question involves the source of this information. The third question concerns, it has taken 19 years for the U.S. and Vietnam to come to this starting point in addressing these questions.

Cooperation Schweitzer 12/04/92

Well, the central government has made it clear to me that the key element in getting that material brought to Hanoi is in U.S. hands, not in their hands. They had -- the leadership of Vietnam cannot simply order 70 million Vietnamese citizens to bring this mountain of material to Hanoi.

It has to be something that the Vietnamese, the common Vietnamese citizen, feels in his heart he wants to do for America. If he has a souvenir, war memorabilia, something that he picked up from a crash or a war site in the highlands in '67 or from a crash up in the mountains someplace, say a piece of an airplane that he's been using as a side of his house or a little package of things he picked up somehow, maybe the man who picked it up is even dead and his children have it and have no idea what it is even.

But they're not going to make -- the common person of Vietnam just isn't going to come forward with all that mountain of information unless they really have the feeling in the heart that they want to do this for America. It can't be dictated from on high that you will bring forward everything that you possess on America. It just won't happen that way.

Cooperation Schweitzer 12/04/92

Schweitzer: ...with the steps that have been taken so far, especially the last one involving AT, people are coming forward with more materials than they've ever come forward with before. I brought two examples with me.

Chairman Kerry: You see a significant shift now suddenly in the production of some of these documents?

Schweitzer: I certainly do. And the more steps the United States takes to ease the hardships on Vietnam, the more warmth the common Vietnamese citizens will feel towards us and will come forward with materials.

Cooperation Sheetz 06/25/92

Mr. Sheetz: I'd like to underscore. There's something that Senator Smith and Senator Kerry, you could both, I think, help us with. I recognize you'll probably be making another trip to Southeast Asia before your committee completes its work. If you do, or if another opportunity presents itself -- I wish you would underscore to both the Laos Government and the Vietnamese Government the need for unfettered access on conducting live sighting investigations. Basically, not frustrating our officers when they're out there in the field trying to facilitate the process. We're making progress, it's getting better, but it's got to get a lot better before I'm going to be happy. And if there's anything this committee could do to underscore with those two governments.

Cooperation Sheridan 12/02/92

...To my way of thinking, the answers are in Hanoi and in Vientiane and in Cambodia, and it could be over with in a very short period of time if those governments would be forthcoming with the information that they have.

Cooperation Vessey 12/04/92

However, when we look at the issue of Vietnamese cooperation, it would be a mistake to forget the progress in reuniting several hundred thousand separated Vietnamese family members, getting over 60,000 Amerasian children and family members out of Vietnam and getting the former South Vietnamese officers and Government officials out of the re-education camps and getting them and their families out of Vietnam if they wanted to go.