Senate Select Committee - XXXIII

Investigation of Offers

"I would not have been surprised at all if they had, three months later, [after the Paris Peace Accords], told us that they had just discovered 50 prisoners and wanted $2 billion for them. But that did not happen.

This opinion, voiced by Henry Kissinger during his deposition to the Select Committee in 1992, reflects a suspicion maintained over 20 years by some POW/MIA families and others that POWs both remained in captivity after the signing of the Paris Peace Accords and would be the subject of Government to Government contact leading to a "buy back" of American POWs. The Committee has found no convincing evidence of any such offer being made. There were, however, two incidents which require further explanation and prove illustrative of the problems relating to this issue.

The 1981 Alleged Offer

The Committee received information that President Reagan had received an "offer" in early 1981 transmitted through a third country (Canada and/or China) of an offer by the government of Vietnam to sell live POWs to the U.S. for $4.5 billion dollars. The source of this information was a Secret Service agent who allegedly was present and overheard part of a meeting in the White House where this matter was discussed.

The agent reportedly overheard President Reagan discussing this offer with Vice-President George Bush, Richard Allen (National Security Adviser) and William Casey (CIA Director). The conversation reportedly took place in the Roosevelt Room, as the four were walking from the Oval Office to a meeting in an adjoining conference room. The agent reported that James Baker (Chief of Staff), Michael Deaver (Deputy Chief of Staff) and Edwin Meese (Attorney General) were waiting in the area of the conference room for the meeting to begin, but he was unsure whether these individuals would have heard any of the conversation.

The Committee treated this report seriously and first attempted to depose the Secret Service agent. Objections were raised by the Department of the Treasury and the Secret Service claiming that such a deposition would forever impair the ability of the Secret Service to guard the President.

The attorney for the agent, J. Thomas Burch (Chairman of National Vietnam Veterans Coalition), explained that the agent would not testify without permission of his agency or a subpoena from the Committee. As an interim alternative to taking the deposition of the Secret Service agent, the Committee told the Administration that it would attempt to substantiate the source's story through the deposition of other potential witnesses.

The Committee deposed several of the individuals reported to be in the general area where the conversation allegedly took place, but none of these individuals said they could recall such a conversation. Of those reported to have actually participated in the conversation, only Mr. Richard Allen was deposed.

Mr. Allen testified as follows:

Q: Changing to another subject, soon after taking office, did the Reagan Administration become involved in an offer made by the Vietnamese government for the return of live Prisoners of War, if you can recall?

A: Very shortly after they came over?

Q: Well, at any time while you were National Security Adviser. I don't want to limit it.

A: The figure of $4 billion seems to stick in my mind, and I can't remember whether that was during my time in all of this or not.

I do recall having once written in my life, either in notes or in a memorandum that it was certainly worth talking about, $4 billion for the return of POWs and MIAs, and that under any. . . I might be able to find those papers. . .

Q: Okay, do you recall whether the $4 billion was for live American prisoners?

A: Yes, I do. If it was for $4 billion, it was indeed live prisoners. . .

. . . First of all, my reaction (was that) $4 billion for live hostages sounded somewhat preposterous to me at first. I was obviously for getting into a discussion, at least getting into a discussion about it.

Mr. Allen sent a letter to the Committee on July 21, 1992, clarifying his testimony. He said he had located a copy of his notes (which he attached) of a meeting on September 24, 1986 at which Capt. Red McDaniel, John M.G. Brown, John Malloy, Mike Milne, J. Thomas Burch, and Bruce Rehmer told Allen of the alleged meeting in 1981. Rep. Billy Hendon also appeared in Allen's notes as someone he had discussed the alleged meeting with. In summary, Allen wrote:

It appears that my uncertainty during the deposition was justified, and that there never was a 1981 meeting about the return of POWs/MIAs for $4 billion.

It becomes clear that my recollection of having written these notes referred to events of 1986, not 1981. During the meeting with Capt. "Red" McDaniel and others, I recall having been surprised by their view that some sort of "cover-up" or "conspiracy" had taken place, and I now recall advising them there were no such meetings in the Roosevelt Room. President Reagan rarely came to the Roosevelt Room, and for very sensitive matters such as a discussion of this quality, it would have taken place only in the Oval Office.

Contact was also made with the Government of Canada as well as several lower level employees of the Department of State and the CIA who should have known about this incident if it occurred. None of the deposed individuals (with the exception of Allen previously noted) confirmed that such an offer was ever made. An extensive review of all pertinent documents from the State Department, CIA and NSC failed to disclose any evidence of this offer.

The Committee regrets that the Secret Service agent was unwilling, out of concern for his job, to testify concerning his report. Faced with this unwillingness, the Committee was divided about whether to compel the agent's testimony by issuing a subpoena. Some Members agreed with the Administration that compelling the testimony of a Secret Service agent concerning a conversation involving the President would set a harmful precedent, and felt that the agent's report was, at best, uncorroborated by the testimony of any other witness. Other Members felt that the agent had waived his claim to special consideration by talking to others about what he had reportedly heard, and that his testimony might contribute significantly to the Committee's investigation. After a lengthy debate, the Committee voted 7-4, with one Senator absent, not to subpoena the testimony of the Secret Service agent.

The Committee notes that, during its investigation, information was uncovered indicating that Mr. Allen had a discussion with Vice- President Bush in January, 1986 concerning his recollection of the alleged offer. This conversation was allegedly the result of an early January, 1986 meeting involving President Reagan, the Vice- President, then Congressman Bob Smith and former Congressman Bill Hendon. During the meeting, the Congressmen inquired about a possible offer involving live POWs in 1981. Both President Reagan and Vice-President Bush told Congressman Smith that no such offer concerning live POWs had been made. Notes from then Vice-President Bush and from former Congressman Hendon's office confirm that a conversation was reported to have taken place between Mr. Bush and Mr. Allen concerning the alleged offer.

The Third Country (ASEAN) Offer

I. Irving Davidson (a civilian with NSC contacts) reported in 1984 that, according to his contacts with highly placed officials of an ASEAN nation, it appeared that individuals in the government of North Vietnam had indicated that the Vietnamese would welcome an approach by the U.S. to discuss the POW issue. The early reports relating to this subject indicated that the discussions were to cover the sale of both warehoused remains and live POWs ("breathers").

In late 1984, a high-ranking retired general, who was a member of the National Security Council of the ASEAN nation, discussed this matter with Richard Childress of the NSC who, with the concurrence of Robert McFarlane (National Security Adviser to President Reagan), traveled to Vietnam to investigate this report. Declassified documents indicate that Assistant Secretary of State Paul Wolfowitz informed Secretary of State George Shultz of a plan to pay for remains and "possible live POWs" in a January, 1985 memorandum marked "super-sensitive." The memo stated that Mr. Childress intended to fund the initiative with either CIA or private funds. Mr. Childress later reported that he had followed up the possible offer, but that it led to a discussion only of remains. The Committee did not consider the matter satisfactorily resolved by the reports filed and viewed that open questions remained as to what had actually occurred.

In 1992, the Chief Counsel to the Select Committee and a Committee Investigator travelled to the ASEAN nation to investigate the alleged 1984 live American offer. Committee investigators met with Government officials and with the General and his brother, the individuals allegedly knowledgeable of the earlier offer. Their stories proved inconsistent. The general's brother remembered offers for live POWs having been made, while the general stated the offers were for remains only. More specifically, the general said that the Vietnamese wanted several hundred million dollars in return for the remains of 50 Americans. The general also said that, at some point, Mr. Davidson had called him to say that the "deal was off because of leaks." Both men indicated that if the Committee desired, the North Vietnamese channel could be reopened for the continued discussion of purchasing remains. The Committee indicated that the U.S. Government was always interested in recovering remains of missing servicemen but that the U.S. Government position remained that no payment would be made for the remains. Subsequently, the U.S. Embassy in the ASEAN country contacted the individual who had initially travelled to North Vietnam to discuss the remains/live POW subject. According to the Embassy's report, the individual says that although the Vietnamese official with whom he dealt did not say specifically that there were live POWs, he did say that his government did not control all lower level Vietnamese officials, and that Vietnam needed financial assistance if it were to find missing Americans or their remains.

In summary, the Committee could not conclusively determine whether individuals in the government of North Vietnam discussed the possibility of there being live POWs in 1984; the Select Committee does find that the sale of remains was discussed.