DASD Jones Northeast Asia Trip Report
(China/North Korea/Hawaii)
11-16 Sep 00

25 Sep 2000
In reply refer to:
I-00/011554

MEMORANDUM FOR UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR POLICY

THROUGH ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS

FROM DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, DPMO

SUBJECT: DASD Jones Trip to Northeast Asia, September 11-16, 2000 -INFORMATION MEMORANDUM

PURPOSE: DASD Robert L. Jones traveled to Beijing, PRC from September 11-14, 2000 to meet with his counterpart in the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Chen Mingming. The primary purpose of this trip was to initiate the US-PRC Korean War Oral History Program and to lay the foundation for further cooperation in Korean War accounting programs. While in Beijing, DASD Jones also met with the US Ambassador to the PRC, Ambassador Joseph Prueher, and with the senior Political Counselor at the embassy, Mr. Jim Moriarity. On September 14, Mr. Jones departed Beijing for Yokota AB, Japan to serve as the senior US participant on the repatriation of US Korean War remains from Pyongyang, DPRK. Mr. Jones accompanied the US honor guard aboard a USAF C-17 from Yokota to Pyongyang, and returned the same day with the remains. While in Pyongyang, Mr. Jones met briefly with Senior Colonel Pak Rim Su of the Korean People's Army (KPA). Following a United Nations Command repatriation ceremony at Yokota, Mr. Jones met with American veterans attending the ceremony. Mr. Jones then accompanied the remains to Hickam AFB, Hawaii, where USPACOM conducted a repatriation ceremony. DASD Jones again met with local veterans following the ceremony, and then met with the commanders of STONY BEACH, US Army Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii (CILHI), and Joint Task Force Full Accounting (JTF-FA).

1. DASD Jones' China Trip, September 11-14, 2000.

Meeting with Mr. Chen Mingming, Deputy Director of North American and Oceanian Affairs, PRC Ministry of Foreign Affairs. On Tuesday, September 12, DASD Jones met Deputy Director Chen at the MFA in Beijing.

* Mr. Jones expressed the US government's pleasure at the joint US-PRC Korean War Oral History Program beginning today with interviews of Chinese veterans of the war. Mr. Jones noted, however, that he was disappointed that DPMO had yet to receive any response to most of the nearly 200 case-specific requests for information presented to the PRC Government since 1991. Mr. Jones stressed the importance of Chinese information sharing to account for Americans missing from the Korean War, and presented two more cases whose resolution DPMO believes could be assisted by access to Chinese archival information. * DASD Jones pointed out that the involvement of the PLA is essential in this information sharing process, and expressed disappointment that DPMO had not had the same level of cooperation with the PLA as with the MFA. Mr. Jones solicited Chen's advice on how to increase our interface with the PLA. * The DASD mentioned that DPMO researchers were prepared to visit the Korean War Museum in Dandong, and were disappointed that the MFA was unable to accommodate such a visit during this trip. Mr. Jones asked Chen to assist DPMO in identifying appropriate Chinese museums and libraries for analysts to visit to conduct open source research on the Korean War. * Mr. Jones informed Chen that DPMO planned to sponsor a symposium on Korean War POW camps, and asked his assistance in identifying Chinese academics to participate. * Chen opened his comments by saying that this was an historic meeting that would help remove misunderstanding and improve US-PRC relations. He cautioned the US to be realistic concerning the outcomes of the initial interviews. He said that the very fact of direct talks with Chinese veterans makes this a significant event. * Mr. Chen stressed that all POW/MIA issues between the PRC and the US were closed following the repatriation programs at the end of active hostilities. He committed, however, to look at all cases presented to him to determine if China had any additional information to provide. Chen stressed the willingness of his government to cooperate on this issue out of respect for family concerns and repeated US requests. * Chen noted that China would hold Korean War 50th Anniversary commemoration activities in October, and he hoped that all such events in our two countries would be designed to strengthen our current friendship. * Mr. Chen cited a number of examples of past PRC cooperation on accounting efforts (Vietnam and WWII), and informed the DASD that two more WWII crash sites had been found in Tibet. Chen is prepared to provide information and assistance to determine future courses of action regarding these two sites. He requested that DPMO coordinate our activities on these cases with his office through the US Embassy in Beijing.


Interview of four Chinese Korean War veterans involved in POW Camp operations. DPMO interviewers held a roundtable discussion with four POW camp workers at the MFA. All were volunteer camp workers, two were affiliated with the Red Cross. The discussion lasted approximately 90 minutes, with each of the veterans giving an account of their responsibilities in the camp system and a synopsis of their involvement with American POWs. Two of the workers had been assigned to the camp system administrative headquarters, and provided useful insights into camp organization, prisoner registration, and eventual repatriation procedures. They discussed early prisoner releases and camp burials, and in one case verified camp cemetery locations.

MFA hosted lunch. DASD Jones continued dialogue with Mr. Chen over lunch.

* The DASD noted that DPMO had sponsored successful veteran-to-veteran exchanges between the US and former adversaries on occasions in the past. Mr. Chen thought that such an exchange between US and Chinese Korean War veterans would be a good idea, perhaps in conjunction with upcoming commemorative activities in Beijing. He asked DASD Jones to present a proposal in writing so that Chen could forward it to the appropriate level for consideration * Mr. Chen asked a number of questions designed to better acquaint him with the entities involved in POW/MIA accounting efforts in the US, and the resources committed to these efforts. * Chen expressed interest in DASD's perception of US-DPRK accounting cooperation and progress on joint field operations in North Korea.


DASD Jones Hosts dinner social for Mr. Chen Mingming. On Tuesday, September 12, DASD Jones hosted dinner for Deputy Director Chen at the Capital Club in Beijing. Two officers from the Foreign Area Office of the PLA were also in attendance.

* During discussions about the importance of archival research to our accounting effort, Mr. Chen expressed great interest in DPMO archival programs in Russia and archival visits by Vietnamese officials to the US. Mr. Jones explained the procedures for these programs, and expressed the hope that he could open further dialogue with both Mr. Chen and PLA officials on future US-PRC archival exchanges. * Chen was inquisitive about DPMO structure, mission, and resources. This appeared to be largely for the benefit of the PLA officers in attendance. * DASD Jones re-visited his proposal concerning a US-PRC Korean War veteran-to-veteran exchange visit in conjunction with upcoming commemoration activities. Mr. Chen was enthusiastic, and said that he looked forward to receiving a formal proposal. * Because of the involvement of Chinese Red Cross volunteers and officials in the oral history program interviews, the DASD and Chen discussed the possibility of exploring Red Cross records as part of an archival research project. Chen was unsure about the procedures for approaching the Red Cross on such a project, but seemed open to further exploration.


Office call with Mr. Jim Moriarity, Political Counselor, AMEMB Beijing. DASD Jones briefed Mr. Moriarity on the outcome of the oral history interviews and discussed with him perceptions of the meeting with Chen Mingming. Mr. Moriarity thought that the meeting had gone very well, and he was pleased with the pace and direction of the oral history program. He noted that the DASD's ongoing dialogue with Chen had fostered a great deal of trust and openness on POW/Missing personnel issues, and he felt that Chinese cooperation would increase as a result.

Office call with Ambassador Prueher. DASD Jones discussed trip objectives and results with Ambassador Joseph Prueher at the US Embassy.

* DASD Highlighted superb support of AMEMB and USDAO Beijing for recovery operations in both China and DPRK. * Mr. Jones stressed that opening avenues for PLA assistance on Korea cases is of primary importance because their archives likely hold a wealth of information on Korean War missing. SECDEF highlighted this on his recent visit. * The Ambassador and the DASD discussed the importance of interface between USDAO and DPMO on debriefing matters. Mr. Jones assured the Ambassador the DPMO would work to increase the effectiveness of communications between players. * Mr. Jones provided AMB Prueher a Summary of Key Points Raised With Chen:

* Productive visit-oral history program is a great achievement and a building block for increased cooperation on Korean War accounting * Expect escalating media and public attention this year due to the 50th Anniversary of the Korean War and events planned to commemorate it. A very good time for a veteran-to-veteran exchange visit to China. * Mr. Jones discussed the two new cases provided to Chen, including the Deane case with which the Ambassador has been personally involved. The DASD impressed upon the Ambassador that DPMO has worked very hard over the past few years to find ways to get the Chinese to share information from their archives that will almost certainly aid our accounting efforts. This is a long-term confidence building process that involves both the MFA and the PLA. The DASD assured the Ambassador that researchers and analysts give immediate attention to all information that comes in regarding any of our cases. The DASD expressed appreciation for the Ambassador's continued advocacy in official forums whenever possible for release of info on any or all of the cases presented to the PRC. * Briefed the Ambassador on archival research and academic exchange initiatives discussed with Chen. * Informed Ambassador Prueher that he would work with the MFA through embassy staff to gain additional information on the two Tibetan crash sites discovered by the Chinese.



Press Conference. DASD Jones held a press conference at the Jingguan Center in Beijing for approximately 15 members of the international print and broadcast media. He noted that the three main purposes for his visit were to initiate the oral history program, discuss ways to increase access to Chinese archives, and plan for future academic exchanges focused on Korean War POW/Missing personnel issues. The DASD noted the excellent cooperation of the PRC government on WWII and Vietnam cases, and the major steps underway to increase Korean War cooperation. He highlighted the historic nature of the oral history interviews conducted during this visit. Mr. Jones also briefly covered the upcoming repatriation of remains from North Korea, and the significance of this event on POW/Missing Personnel Recognition Day. He also noted that the previous night's dinner was the first opportunity to hold a dialogue with PLA officials, and expressed hope that this was a prelude to future meetings. The DASD fielded questions for approximately 30 minutes. The questions chiefly concerned clarification of Chinese cooperation on POW/Missing personnel issues, and also covered a number of topics concerning general historical background of accounting efforts. There was considerable interest on the part of several reporters concerning Cold War losses and US efforts to account for them. The Chicago Tribune reporter had done considerable internet research and was interested in the live American/POW transfer issue.

2. DASD Jones meets with Sr Col Pak Rim Su, North Korean People's Army, Deputy Director of KPA Panmunjom Mission. On Friday, September 15, DASD Jones traveled by USAF C-17 aircraft to Pyongyang, DPRK, to repatriate the remains of nine US service men recovered during the third joint US-DPRK recovery operation of this year. Mr. Jones met with Pak for three hours before returning with the remains to Yokota AB, Japan.

* Sr Col Pak welcomed Mr. Jones, explaining that the DASD's counterpart, LTG Li Chon Bok, was hospitalized for kidney problems and unable to meet Mr. Jones. SrCol Pak pointed out that he has met with DASD Jones on four occasions, and appreciates the open and frank discussions they have had. Referencing a "specific goal" in mind for this meeting, Pak said that while operations this year would continue to be very successful, there is a threat to this current cooperative environment and to future prospects. Pak stressed that this year's operations were a "special case" defined by the June talks in Kuala Lumpur. A return to normal operations could only occur after the US resolved the problem of "anti-American sentiment" among the North Korean populace. Pak hinged success in upcoming 2001 recovery operation talks (December) on an early reply by the US on the "humanitarian issue". * Mr. Jones pointed out that the US and DPRK were enjoying improving relations, and that President Clinton had talked with the American people about increased cooperation. Mr. Jones mentioned that he had not heard of similar comments from the North Korean leader. In terms of humanitarian aid, Mr. Jones stressed that the US provided a tremendous amount of aid to the DPRK. The DASD pointed out that US law prevented him from providing the sort of assistance requested by LTG Li during last December's failed recovery operation talks in Berlin. As then, Mr. Jones recommended that the DPRK make requests of that nature through the appropriate channels, beginning with the US Dept. of State. He pointed out that the December request for a children's clothing factory was unrealistic-- the DASD could support only realistic requests made through the appropriate channels. His support would not be in the form of a decision, but would be a positive recommendation to the decision makers based on DPRK cooperation in the POW/Missing personnel issue * Pak again stressed that this year's operations were a "special case", and that results at December talks this year concerning next year's operations depended on resolution of the humanitarian issue. Pak said that even if talks were to be held, absent such a resolution the talks would not succeed. Pak reiterated that this was not his decision, but that of "higher-ups" in the KPA. Pak noted that many in his government considered stopping operations and sending the US recovery team home because of the poor treatment of Kim Yong Nam's delegation en route to New York. The people of the DPRK were very unhappy with America at the moment, making a response on the humanitarian issue even more important. Pak indicated that his government considered denying Mr. Jones entry into their airspace, but elected to have frank talks * DASD Jones noted that the Secretary of State had expressed official US regret for this incident and that DPRK acceptance of this was rapid-indicators of how well the relationship was progressing. Mr. Jones asked Pak to look to the future, and expressed disappointment that some of the US proposals to increase access to remains locations in the DPRK had yet to be realized. While Pak and Li had invited Mr. Jones to the Chosin Reservoir in the past, they had not followed through when Mr. Jones actually requested to go. * Regarding the humanitarian issue, the DASD pointed out that he is not aware of any formal requests through appropriate channels. Mr. Jones reiterated that all he could legally do would be to provide support for official, realistic requests; and that such support hinged on continued success in recovery operations. In the vein of continued operational success, Mr. Jones asked Pak if they could discuss the venue for upcoming talks in December. The DASD asked Pak for his thoughts on the US recommendation to hold the talks in Rome, Berlin, or Kuala Lumpur. * Pak did not want to discuss the venue for December's talks, saying that a US response to the humanitarian issue was required first. Mr. Jones asked Pak to define the humanitarian aid to which Pak referred. Pak would not specify, but said that it had to have a direct link to the North Korean witnesses and others providing support to the recovery effort. Mr. Jones asked for clarification: was Pak saying that the KPA wanted the US to provide direct assistance to individuals providing information or support to investigation and recovery teams that led to the recovery of American remains? Pak said "no", but that the US must propose some way to develop a "formula" for aid that respected the unique situation in the DPRK (i.e. the fact that the US and DPRK officially remain enemies). The KPA seeks a direct link between JROs and an aid package * Mr. Jones again recommended that the DPRK seek aid through the appropriate, legal channels, and that other issues could be discussed in December. The venue for the December talks should be chosen soon so that preparations could begin. * Pak responded that the venue was not important; that determining who would hold the talks would be more critical. Mr. Jones queried Pak about whether or not there was doubt in LTG Li's mind about meeting with Mr. Jones. Pak evaded a direct response, saying only that Li-Jones discussions in Berlin did not go well. He then turned back to the "humanitarian issue", saying that the US should respond by October if December talks were to be successful. The DASD responded by once again stressing that humanitarian requests must be well defined, realistic, and officially requested. Pak closed his discussion of the humanitarian issue by saying that LTG Li had defined humanitarian aid in Berlin. Pak stated the KPA does not do business through DPRK MFA channels. * Mr. Jones said that he expected to meet again in December. Pak responded by saying he hoped to hear from the DASD before December. He pointed out that this year's successes were due to cooperation during "special" negotiations in June, and that future access to the Chosin and other such areas depended on a US answer to the humanitarian issue. Jones again pressed for clarification of this issue, but Pak would only say that LTG Li had defined the issue in Berlin. The DASD pointed out that he had asked LTG Li to formalize his proposal through State Department. Pak responded by saying that this was an issue between militaries-the KPA managed the recovery program in the DPRK and worked with US DoD, not State. Mr. Jones stressed again that he did not have authority to respond to requests for humanitarian aid as discussed with LTG Li in Berlin. * The discussions ended cordially, but without either side committing to a next course of action. The DASD and SrCol Pak exchanged small gifts, and the US delegation boarded the C-17 with the remains and returned to Japan. There were no problems in Pyongyang with customs procedures or aircraft entry and exit formalities. KPA and DPRK Customs officials turned down an invitation from the aircraft commander to take a brief tour of the C-17, and no DPRK personnel entered the aircraft.


3. UN repatriation ceremony and DASD meeting with US veterans at Yokota. DASD Jones participated as the senior US representative at a UN repatriation ceremony at Yokota AB, Japan on 15 September. The ceremony was well attended, with significant participation on the part of veterans from Asian VFW posts. Following the ceremony, the DASD met with these veterans and briefed them on the outcome of the recent oral history interviews and meetings in China, and on the current state of recovery operations in North Korea. The veterans asked a number of questions about worldwide recovery and accounting efforts, and closed the meeting with an expression of strong support for continued repatriation ceremonies at Yokota.

4. Hickam AFB Repatriation and Hawaii Visit.

USPACOM repatriation ceremony and DASD meeting with US veterans at Hickam AFB, Hawaii. DASD Jones participated as the senior representative at a repatriation ceremony at Hickam AFB on 15 September. The ceremony was well attended, with significant participation on the part of local veterans. Following the ceremony, the DASD met with these veterans and briefed them on his trip to China, and on the current state of recovery operations in North Korea. The veterans expressed strong support for current recovery and accounting programs, and did not have any major issues or concerns.

Office call with COL Rick Villalobos, Commander of STONY BEACH. DASD Jones discussed Southeast Asian oral history efforts and other issues with Col Villalobos. COL Villalobos expressed appreciation for the DASD's assistance in resolving recent resource issues, and said that coordination between STONY BEACH and DPMO analysts had improved. Mr. Jones stressed that Stony Beach's mission is to support the accounting mission, not personnel recovery, and that Stony Beach should focus on relevant mission areas. COL Villalobos indicated that he expected his personnel strength to increase to 13 and that he had two Vietnamese and one Lao language qualified individuals nominated for assignment.

Office call with COL Dave Pagano, Commander of USACILHI, and briefings by CILHI anthropologists and analyst. DASD Jones discussed global recovery operation and remains identification issues with Col Pagano. CILHI anthropologists briefed Mr. Jones on identifications in progress and the Oak Ridge Institute for Scientific Education program. COL Pagano expressed concern over the amount of time taken by AFDIL to process non-priority DNA samples, but did not provide a final answer to the DASD's questions concerning exact turn-around times and resource prioritization issues. The DASD also informed COL Pagano that he had directed the DPMO Family Support Director to emphasize collection of Family DNA Reference Samples, and told COL Pagano to get an update on this from his staff. CILHI analyst Mr. Rick Huston briefed Mr. Jones on the status of the identification process for the 208 sets of remains unilaterally returned to the US by the North Koreans in the early '90s, and for the Korean War unknowns interred in the Punchbowl Cemetery. Mr. Jones reminded COL Pagano that the DASD had provided policy guidance on disinterment authority, and wanted to be kept informed of next steps in Punchbowl activity. Mr. Jones then received a tour of the laboratory. The DASD asked how many total remains were on the shelf at CILHI, and requested an update on their identification progress. COL Pagano did not have this information on hand, but promised to provide the DASD with the relevant statistical data. Mr. Jones also suggested CIL analysts contact Dr. Collura at DPMO to obtain archival research at the National Archives.

Office call with BG Harry Axson, Commander of JTF Full Accounting. The DASD and BG Axson discussed coordination for possible high level visits to Vietnam in November.

5. Next Steps.

* DPMO will prepare a proposal for a veteran exchange visit by US Korean War veterans to Beijing in late October. Following inter-agency coordination, DPMO will forward the proposal to the MFA in Beijing. * A DoD delegation, led by the DPMO Deputy Director, will travel to Pyongyang 26-30 September, 2000 to hold technical talks with KPA counterparts. The focus of these talks is to address operational issues bearing on the two remaining operations this year, and to lay the foundation for upcoming negotiations for 2001 recovery operations. * DPMO will work with officials at the American Embassy, Beijing to obtain additional information on the two possible crash sites in Tibet, and to plan site visits by US investigative teams as appropriate. * DPMO will further develop plans for open source archival research visits to China, and forward proposals to the PRC MFA as soon as possible.