U.S.-Russia Joint Commission
Cold War Working Group
Marriott Grand Hotel, Moscow, Russian Federation
25 September 2002

U.S. Side

– Mr. A. Denis Clift, Co-Chairman, Cold War Working Group;  President, Joint Military Intelligence College
– MAJ Matthew Kristoff, Senior Analyst, Cold War Working Group
– Thomas Shipp, JCSD-Moscow – Sveta Amvrosova, Interpreter

R.F. Side

– Mr. Vasiliy Stepanovich Khristoforov, Acting Co-Chairman, Cold War Working Group; Chief, FSB Archival Service
– Col. (ret) Vladimir Konstantinovich Vinogradov; Consultant, Cold War Working Group
– Miss Natasha Levina, Executive Secretary, R.F. Side of U.S. - Russia Joint Commission on POW/MIAs
RADM Boris Gavrilovich Novyy, Special Consultant to U.S. and R.F. Sides of Joint Commission

Meeting started at 1000
Exchanged pleasantries

Opening Remarks

Mr. Clift: Col. Vinogradov, since it is your country, may I invite you to open the meeting.

Col. Vinogradov: With pleasure, I'm glad to greet you in Moscow because we had more official meetings involving Mr. Lajoie and other commission members. At these meetings our talks focused on all issues, and only partially on the Cold War.

We are always impressed with your concrete efforts and energy focused on achieving results on our project. The R.F. Side and my colleagues strive to do the same.

In the beginning we were correct to define limits on events and issues to address in the future.

We have researched all of the incidents and we have had positive results.

All colleagues, including Zolotarev and others, understand well that the results have important meaning for R.F. and U.S. relations. And, it is also done with enthusiasm for R.F. and U.S. citizens.

You showed me the enthusiasm at the ceremony at the cemetery in Lithuania - it had an impact and it had us thinking that such ceremonies have a huge meaning.

Our country also remembers the phrases "Nothing is Forgotten" and "Never forget."

We also place importance on the military situations at sea and in northern areas - and recognize that such situations are done in difficult conditions. Many people realize it and consider our work noble and humanistic. Our two countries' leadership also understands this.

You know that in our CWWG section we carefully study every issue. Today we know there are difficult areas in searching. We also need to know where to concentrate our efforts to search. Time is of the essence of course. We are trying to overcome these problems.

In the search for MIAs, we have good contacts within the Former Soviet Union (FSU).

We have organizations that have good relations with our special services, Red Cross, and others. Archivists never refuse us if they have information. Our information is not of a "bad character" - it is not classified information. There are no problems connected with releasing information regarding the fate of servicemen (burial, location, etc.).

The R.F. side always informed the U.S. side about men who transited through Soviet occupation after WWII. This information was provided. If they were still alive and they consented we shared it. As you know, the U.S. side also helped the R.F. by providing information regarding Afghanistan and other "hot spots" where Soviets served.

As usual, we are still interested in the fate of the K-129. We posed this issue to Lajoie last time. Oh, there was also a funny incident. Lajoie said he had an official reply from the CIA to this request. I'd like to say we also have an official reply from our competent agencies for our episodes (CW and others).

As far as our Commission is concerned - I feel that all the document research is finished. As far as KW and VW I think it is still possible to find information about servicemen lost during these conflicts. Those wars were ground wars, not air or sea incidents like ours. This is what makes it so difficult.

I think that Admiral Novyy is the real expert on Posa, and it is good that he is here.

We, with Admiral Novyy, could exchange information regarding POSA. We realize the difficulties of this work. We are not only searching for people, but also documents.

We do not hide from the U.S. side the difficulties of arriving at conclusions. Any evidence regarding the final resting place of this pilot is important. If it is a cemetery it will be very difficult to find him. If it were similar to Kamchatka (note: buried separately), or like the Armenian incident, it would have been easier.

I have reviewed briefly our activities. I would like to hear your comments and questions and opinions on this and other issues you want to discuss.

Mr. Clift: Thank You. At the outset, allow me to introduce my colleagues. MAJ Matt Kristoff is my associate in Washington DC. He has had the pleasure of working with our Moscow office in the past, and traveling through your vast country during his work. Next is Tom Shipp the Dep. Director of Moscow.

I arrived in Moscow with Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Jerry Jennings, who is now responsible for POW/MIA Affairs in the Department of Defense (DoD).

Col. Vinogradov: I must apologize. I forgot to introduce my colleague. I think it's an honor to introduce the head of the Archival Registry of Fund for FSB - the Director of the FSB Archives. He is not responsible for other archives.

Mr. Clift at this point presented Mr. Khristoforov a pin, and a gift to Col. Vinogradov and Adm. Novyy.

Col. Vinogradov: I will take advantage of the moment and continue a wonderful tradition - exchange a book on the history of domestic special services.

Since Mr. Clift is always giving his students our work (open publication of course) we will present him an open publication regarding the situation when the Germans were on the threshold of our capital. He will be interested in reading the first chapters on how the underground prepared for war, how we evacuated our wealth and treasures, how we planned on using the Kremlin as a defensive position, and what Stalin did during this period.

Mr. Clift: These publications are of tremendous interest and are fascinating to my colleagues in DC. Last time we met you presented me the history of the search for Hitler. I gave it to a Russian-speaking colleague/book reviewer. He prepared a lengthy English language review of the book and it (the review) was published. I will do the same with this book. Thank you very much.

Col. Vinogradov: We appreciate it!

Mr. Clift: You and I last met in April of 200l. I mentioned that since that time Matt Kristoff has been my colleague in DC. I also mentioned that Boris Gavrilovich Novyy has since that time conducted important research for our group. In that regard, he made the first visit to the Border Guards Archives in Pushkino, and continued research on (Major) Posa as well as the loss of one of our aircraft over the Baltics in 1950. In fact, in October of last year, we provided your side, via our Moscow office, with a request for copies of the documents he found in Pushkino.

You stated earlier that you met with MG Lajoie and he mentioned that I would make this visit later in the year. I should note that I was very pleased last night in my discussions with Gen. Zolotarev to have him to underline the importance of the continuation of this work. You were good enough to thank us for our work in helping with Afghanistan information on POWs.

In May, we passed you a document discovered by our forces in Afghanistan regarding a Soviet general who went missing during your war there. We continued our research and found two more documents that may be of interest. I would ask MAJ Matt Kristoff to briefly describe documents.

MAJ Kristoff: These documents concern forces in Chechnya and are from open sources. One is from a website and the other from a radio broadcast. They were found by U.S. forces fighting terrorism and were found on a computer disk. We cannot verify the accuracy of these documents. From an analytical point of view, they are probably propaganda, but with full disclosure in mind and the hope that this information may assist you in find your missing we provide this to you.

Col. Vinogradov: Yes, of course, any evidence needs to be checked, regardless of the source. As we say here: "no stone unturned." Thank you.

Mr. Clift: In July of this year, I met with family members who have CW and KW missing relatives. They are very pleased that we are continuing our discussions. Indeed, Mrs. Charlotte Busch Mitnick underscored the importance she attaches to our continued research.

At the beginning of August I wrote you to discuss specific steps we could take to follow up the research that Admiral Novyy has conducted. I would like to briefly review those steps again and open the floor up to you, your colleagues, and Admiral Novyy.

One issue of importance to me is the issue of providing him the authority to visit these archives.

Here I cite for example the important letter Gen. Zolotarev received from 1st Deputy Director of the Border Guards General Reznichenko, "There is no substitute to doing this humanitarian issue through proper channels…" In my letter in early August, this was the first issue I addressed.

Col. Vinogradov: I did not read it.

Mr. Clift passes the letter to Col. Vinogradov. Vinogradov scans the letter.

Col. Vinogradov: Oh, these are normal procedures.

Mr. Clift: Yes, they are. The first issue, as you indicated, is that we would like to continue work on Major Posa and we have identified 7 individuals we would like to locate. These are military personnel from the Northern Fleet. We also identified three former employees from the security services who were involved in the area of Severomorsk during the time of the Posa incident.

The next area we would like to propose for our future work relates to continued research at the Russian Navy Archives in Gatchina and the Border Guard Archives in Pushkino. Here it is essential that the necessary permission be provided to our mutual researcher Admiral Novyy.

Finally, looking ahead to the coming months we would like to arrange for necessary permission for Admiral Novyy to conduct research in the Far Eastern regions and also the Baltics.

As my staff and I have looked at priority areas of interest to us, we would like him to be able to visit the Pacific Fleet and Baltic Fleet archives. We would like to arrange for him to visit the Air Defense (PVO) Archives of the Far East and Baltic Military Districts. We would like to arrange for him to visit Federal Border Forces in the Far East and Baltics and arrange for him to visit the Primorskiy Kray MVD Archives, and finally the archives of FSB in the Far East Military District.

This is a work program, as we see it, for several months, but based on the work we have developed to date we think it has value. If I may, I would value your response to this request by us. And, then I think it would be of value if Admiral Novyy would describe the prospects of future information. Thank you much.

Mr. Khristoforov: - I would like to clarify. In order to understand each other better, I would like to clarify a few terms and notions. What do you mean by "access" when you speak of access for Novyy to the archives? Our archives are pretty open and accessible.

I support the position of the 1st Dep. Dir. of Border Guards Reznichenko statement saying that this issue is open for cooperation. The same refers to archives of FSB. Which additional permit or access do you have in mind?

Mr. Clift: The last thing I would hate to be accused of is being a bureaucrat and ask for more paperwork. I cannot presume that we can just send a researcher to archives that belong to different entities and it would happen. We just want to make contact with the proper authorities.

Admiral Novyy: The thing is that in order to work in Pushkino there is a requirement that I have a letter from Zolotarev to the Border Guards authorizing me to work there [on behalf of the Commission]. Here is the form and informational sheet [spravka] for me to work there (Novyy passes the forms to Khristoforov at this moment).

When the documents (spravka and letter) arrived it was no problem. It is only because of the Commission - otherwise they would not let me in. Zolotarev's colleagues prepared the requests well. The same sort of documents would be necessary for Gatchina Naval Archives in order to extend my permit past 2003.

It is not so easy to work in archives. There are open archives, literature, ancient history, etc.; these are easy. However, our archives, like the FSB's, are not so easy.

Let me state how I see my work in the future - if this sounds reasonable:

I think we have to concentrate, like on Posa and others, on local archives, Pacific Fleet, Baltic Fleet, and Northern Region - because part of documents were not transferred to central archives. I am convinced of this and I have experience - so if it is reasonable I would like permission. As Mr. Clift said, I think it makes sense to work in the Far East, etc. I just need permits. 2003 is coming. For the commission it is not so difficult to process such requests.

Mr. Clift: As I see it, the letters are permits from leaders (BG, FSB) that state this Russian researcher is authorized to come and work on archival documents for the Commission. For us in this working group addressing specific Cold War losses these are not letters requesting blanket authority to go through the archives. We want to research very specific time, dates, units, for our humanitarian work and this enables people to better understand the purpose of our work.

Admiral Novyy: Correct.

Mr. Khristoforov: I now think we are speaking the same language. This is EXACTLY what I meant - specific archival subjects, dates, and units. No blanket access. This makes perfect sense.

Mr. Clift: In our country we call that a fishing expedition - carte blanche [access]. That is not our interest. We are looking for servicemen lost in specific incidents and that is all we are looking for. My staff and I would be very happy to work with you to develop concrete language to clarify these issues.

Col. Vinogradov: Additionally, Mr. Clift touched on a problem that we have discussed before. That is the issue of access and the issue of where the materials are located for such a time period. As we understand it, in the U.S. there are no central archives - as far as the FSU and R.F. were/are concerned, this centralized principle was adopted and implemented. Therefore the search of such documents that interest us, they are located (not the FSB, mind you, that is a separate issue) in centralized locations.

All documents that we are talking about are at the MOD Archives, BG Archives, and the Naval Archives in Gatchina. R.F. and U.S. specialists work in MOD Archives. They had findings that helped all working groups.

Unfortunately, today there is no representative from General Staff of MOD present. He could confirm or deny issues (Filippov) concerning archival access. In theory, all materials of interest should be in these archives. Therefore I think the Commission can do official requests in order to confirm or refute that all materials of those military districts and entities from regional archives were sent to central archives. We think they have been. Therefore, it makes no sense to approach regional HQs of zones, regions, etc. Let us say that it is possible to say that 30 years ago all archival documents were not centralized, today that is not the case.

We could ask Col. Filippov about military archives. We can ask Natalya Levina. We can figure out what sort of letter is needed to send to central archives so they can confirm their holdings.

In principle, the above named archives are open, including the BG archives. Of course, each have closed fonds and classified holdings. As far as the FSB archive is concerned, access to it is, well, as Vasiliy Stepanovich said it is open and materials are used in open publications.

However, the researchers at the archive of the FSB deal only with unclassified documents and special requests. If such information is in the holdings and unclassified then they are allowed to look at them. However, the FSB does not have a finding guide published for its holdings - unlike the other archives. That is to say inventories, catalogues, and databases. But, we always said at the beginning there are no obstacles to getting information on missing American servicemen. President Yeltsin's resolution stated that we should not keep anything (related to POW/MIAs) secret.

We have no problems sharing information on pilots and others about how they went missing. These two problems - problem of access and archives are connected. The road is open to those who work on the Commission and have proper authority.

As for Novyy, the Commission has done it for MoD, and now for BG archives. I think the access must be confirmed for the BG and MoD archives separately - they are different entities. We have to confirm his authorization. This is our internal problem. We will address it.

Mr. Khristoforov: I would like to confirm Vinogradov's words that we don't hide any info regarding MIAs or POWs. We provided the German Red Cross information on 138,000 German POWs.

Col. Vinogradov: You know, in addition to our Commission's work, there were also Swedish, American, and Russian commissions that tried to determine the nationality of many citizens in the camps. It was proven that there were no citizens of these nations in the camps. Trust me that the people who did this work did not even know there would be a commission (MVD). Everything was true. They did not hide anything. They documented everything. They could have made mistakes - instead of citizenship but nationality. They could have made mistakes.

Mr. Clift: That is possible. In the U.S., Americans are from all over the World.

Col. Vinogradov: Let us say that some people were born in a country but lived in another. So, when Memorial says that an American was in each camp they were wrong.

Mr. Clift: We are discussing process, and we want to make sure we understand the intense work involved in going through archives. We have the good fortune to have a retired admiral of the Soviet Navy who is respected by both countries agree to do our work. We want to insure that there is nothing that will block his opportunity to do research for both of us.

So, first I thank you for the remarks you both have made regarding seeing no problems with his work in central archives in Gatchina and Pushkino (BG) i.e., you said there won't be any problems.

I understand from my work with you that the way the archives worked was to have your archives send archival documents to central archives. That said, there are two things I carry in my mind:

One: Neither side treats our efforts on MIAs as secrets, and
Two: Mistakes can be made.

When we have the good fortune to have a qualified researcher willing to do work for us - we would like to go out to local archives on the off chance there are things there for us. Working with necessary authorities we want to leave no stone unturned. That is why we would like to go to the Baltic and Pacific archives we have mentioned.

Of the ten incidents central to the CWWG, the four on which we have the smallest amount of information took place in the Pacific region. That is why we would like to be able to go back out with Admiral Novyy as our researcher and look at these archives.

I have elaborated on this procedural discussion because I think it is important to get new information. That is why we wish to obtain the necessary documentation so that he can go to archives.

Mr. Khristoforov: In principle we do not reject any trip to local archives, we just wanted to warn you that it might be useless to go.

In order to maximize the request on security services in the Far East, we propose the following:

Formulate all issues and problems as well as the spectrum of documents [scope of work] in the Far East region. We will make this a task for our Far East archivists in doing this research. Then we will know what we have and he [Novyy] can economize his time in the Far East.

Admiral Novyy: Yes, it is a good approach. I need to concentrate on the basic issues regarding these documents.

Mr. Khristoforov: Take your time and get it to us.

Admiral Novyy: I will take a look at it and get it to you. We need to determine the 19 PVO veterans. On 29 October, veterans of 10th PVO Army will meet in Moscow. I believe these are people who were directly involved in the RB-47 incident and the burial of POSA.

I have spoken with the organizers and they have invited me. An American member of the U.S.-R.F. Commission is also invited.

We need to check to verify the PVO staff who were involved in the Posa burial. We will speak about this at the meeting. To this end, I will work from 26-27 September at the Central Archives in Podol'sk. I will determine the officers who were in Severomorsk and that way I will have more specific information for the meeting.

I speak about this because I found my notes from a meeting with Admiral Rasovkov in 1996 or 1997. He told me about an episode of a downed aircraft. I remember his phrase, "Being the Head of Fleet Search - I was involved in Posa's burial" Mr. Chenbinenko, Commander of Navy at the time prevented me from getting involved in this. He told me, 'You're in the Navy. Let the people who shot it down do it, not you!'" Rasovkov said that it would not be the Navy pilots who were involved, but PVO pilots.

The situation is thus - a ship came at 0500 19 Oct and they took the body of a pilot and put it on a truck. The head of the detail was Major Ponomarev. At some point a car came and ordered the body placed in the car. It was the special department of the Navy. It was not KGB, not Border Guard. Whose car was it? It could only have been the PVO car. We must check it. All incidents must be supported by archival documents. The Navy only did the search and transfer of the body. They had nothing to do with the burial.

Col. Vinogradov: He [Posa] was found by chance. Fishermen found him.

Admiral Novyy: There was a later expedition for plane parts. Other military ships were involved in transferring the body.

Mr. Clift: There is another aspect of regional access and it relates to heart of our work. Our success has come from two sources - archival documents; and witnesses involved in the episodes.

As you said earlier, time marches on, and people get older every day. It is our hope that looking through regional archives and looking at units involved we may be able to find people still alive who were involved. I did not make that point earlier, but I do not think it is in dispute. Finding people is important.

Col. Vinogradov: Sure, finding people is not easy. Right now there are lists of servicemen in the population, but there is no general database for the R.F. or FSU. As far as servicemen are concerned, those who were cadre professional men, that is one issue - but those who were enlisted or draftees, then that is another more difficult issue. It is easy to find the professional ones via MoD, Border Guards, and KGB organizations. There is a general record of servicemen, but for draftees, it's harder.

Servicemen selected residence after serving. A lot of retirees chose a new location. If you served in the north you would go south. You have for sure noticed that such witnesses are now located in Crimea, Sevastopol', etc. Of course, some people serving in the north went to St. Petersburg.

Border Guards and KGB employees (officers), are located in Moscow. We spoke with them. Some said they only knew that it happened. Others said they did not hear anything. It is very hard to find someone who was involved in the burial. It is extremely difficult.

We had one witness from the special services who correctly characterized the circumstances. He said that the location of the Posa's body was an "undesirable factor." Why did he say this? Because they had already found two crewmen alive and returned them to U.S. control. With Posa time passed and it was fall already. Raising the issue to an official level was considered undesirable.

This is nothing to any Soviet, because live pilots were found and they were detained arrested and transferred to U.S. side. Also, weather was a factor. It was harder to find new parts of the plane and raft. He denied that the remains were taken far away. Kildin Island, for example, was mentioned.

Admiral Novyy: Keep Kildin on the agenda.

Col. Vinogradov: They expressed their doubts after saying "Kildin." As you know, the lend-lease Americans were buried there. Those who have seen the document from KGB leaders regarding the location do not recall what the document said.

There was also evidence that KGB officers came there and I think it could have happened. It would have been more of a spontaneous event. That is why it was not registered in their files. It would have been a TDY and such documents are not kept long. Such a document is not an operational document, but a financial document and therefore it does not stay in a file long.

Admiral Novyy: Excuse me; it is possible to find the 3rd Main Directorate of Naval Intelligence. It is possible to find that someone escorted the body.

Col. Vinogradov: We had such a list and most were dead. We were also unable to locate most of them. We could not identify the 3rd Main Directorate. Most of them probably would not remember such an incident. We found a worker of the special detail and I told you what he said.

Mr. Clift: Who was it?

Col. Vinogradov: He asked not to be identified. We can ask him again. He was the head of the Counter-Intelligence guys.

Admiral Novyy: It is very difficult to get in touch with the CI guys.

Col. Vinogradov: It is actually very easy. We have another book about them coming out. Getting information from them, however, is very difficult.

Admiral Novyy: Good information, through the leadership it can be done - they can find out easily.

Col. Vinogradov: Yes, it is easy. They live in one area.

Admiral Novyy: If a name is known, for example, the 21st PVO guy can tell me where his people are.

Col. Vinogradov: I can also say that the majority of them did not know it was an American and the burial site did not have a headstone. It also would not be registered in a cemetery. We know this from the victims of political repressions in 1930s. But this does not mean we have lost hope.

Mr. Clift: I do not disagree with anything you are saying, but what I would hope is that you would facilitate our staff here finding the names of the people I provided you in the 8 August correspondence. These are military personnel of the R.F. Seven individuals from MoD and three individuals who worked for KGB. We know how hard it is, but we hope we can work through it with our mutual researcher.

Col. Vinogradov: It is possible to provide replies and Ms. Levina will tell you about what she found. As far as the 7 people, we did a request to the Voenkomat.

Miss Levina: - I have information on two people. But for Dorunin, I do not know.

Admiral Novyy: Boyko is the most important. The Voenkomat and the Militia said they do not have any information on him. Boyko is very important. He was the head of the motor pool. His fellow servicemen stated that Boyko knew everything. About the cars, etc. He could have known where they took Posa, etc.

Mr. Khristoforov: What do we know about him?

Admiral Novyy: We have most of his information.

Col. Vinogradov: It is fine to do it alone, however, it is best to go through the Commission. We can then have permanent contact.

Miss Levina: I will do this tomorrow.

Mr. Clift: This was the purpose of my letter. We did not want an independent effort. We will have Ms. Levina work on it and we will work with you. That is why I included it in the letter.

Col. Vinogradov: I think that is correct. I think we will reply. As far as the archives are concerned, we discussed it. As far as the names are concerned, we are now starting to discuss it. As far as the servicemen are concerned, we will work with Novyy. As far as KGB officials are concerned - did you provide this information?

Admiral Novyy: I called General (ret) Yuchenko (tel: ###-####). He lives in Moscow. He said Filippov, Batukov, and others may be alive.

Col. Vinogradov: Questions for you. Filippov, we do not have any data on how he is related to this incident. Is it for Posa? What about Batrokov and Yeronim? Is it the 47th or 50th? Which is it? We can get in touch with Yeronim. Batrokov? Well, I think he provided testimony to the Commission. He was interviewed in 1999. Shpitanov? He was in the Baltics. We have no answers from him.

Well, the work continues and it is important to specify which incident they were involved with. It helps to know the timeframe. When the guy thinks he was there and when he was there.

Mr. Clift: This is why it is useful to clarify specific issues, and get misunderstandings clarified. We both want to continue these valuable sessions, and set a course for the future.

Col. Vinogradov: I think we are fortunate to say that we had saying, that we would overtake America on meat and eggs. We failed on that, but we are in parity with the U.S. regarding archives.

I think, Mr. Clift, that it is good that you do not think that there were Americans in all camps. It is important that American citizens share this opinion.

I had two meetings with American family members. Several of them were still in the Cold War mentality. It is very important that our atmosphere of trust needs to be such that we can have a final result. It is more of a problem with the VW section. They think Americans were here and a Senator was backing it up and that is why it is a problem.

Mr. Clift: I have made a point of sticking to my specific work on the Commission. I have not offered judgments on the broader work of this Commission. I want to stick with: a.) helping you find your lost servicemen and b.) our 10 incidents. This brings me back to the satisfaction that we are now in agreement on the program in relation to regional archives.

We mentioned our CW loses in the Pacific. Here there are cases that you know about in dealing with our families - the loss of the RB-29 over Sea of Japan in June 1952. All of the reports, valid or not, about survivors being interrogated and taken to camps; the loss of P2-V in 1951; the testimony of Trotsenko in the hospital prison section; the loss of the RB-50 off of Vladivostok in 1953; the information we discovered regarding the patrol craft at Gatchina; the testimony of Kravchenko on 7 parachutes; and the testimony of Col. Korotkov, who said that Americans were brought ashore, but that he was told, "the Korean War is over. The special services have them now; you cannot interrogate them."

These very specific issues, these references to Americans alive following the shootdowns, concern the families in the U.S. and it drives our work in this working group. That is why I am pleased with the process we had today. We are on the bridge together, and have set a good course for the working group.

Col. Vinogradov: When the American planes flew to the Far East they were communicating. Crews were sending communications before and during, and you had to have information from it.

Mr. Clift: I am not sure if that is always the case. These were recon missions and often involved radio silence. Another example in the Pacific was the RB-47 shot down April 1955 off of Kamchatka. Your documents established that the U.S. side had no idea where the plane went down. They showed that the airborne search was hundreds of miles from where the plane went down.

Col. Vinogradov: Yes, of course, but there was also evidence that the plane crashed in water. A lot has been said in the past 10 years.

Mr. Clift: - I think we have done what we came for this morning. Let us keep at concrete issues.

Admiral Novyy: I will do it. It will be a program that will be set up and agreed to. Please let us exchange contact information [said to Khristoforov]. I will be glad to see you, via Levina, etc.

Mr. Clift: - Thank you very much - good discussion. If I may propose, let us adjourn."

Courtesy DPMO Website - http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/

Department of Defense,
Defense Prisoner Of War/Missing Personnel Office
2400 Defense Pentagon, Washington, DC 20301-2400