World War II veterans share horrific tales at Elmwood Park Library
BY CATHRYN GRAN
STAFF WRITER - Pioneer Press
War is horrible, and innocent people die.
That sentiment was expressed by all four World War II veterans who revealed their experiences during a program Aug. 17 at the Elmwood Park Public Library. The program marked the 60th anniversary of the end of the war.
Putting a face on the horrors of war was Gus Kay, who served in the U.S. Navy and was one of the few survivors of the sinking of the USS Indianapolis.
After taking components of the atomic bomb to Tinian, the USS Indianapolis was on its way back to the Philippines when it was hit by two Japanese torpedoes, the Elmwood Park resident recounted.
"One in the bow and one in the magazine," Kay said. "We didn't know what an atomic bomb was
"The ship went down in 11 minutes," he continued. "I slid down the side of the ship. There were 129 of us in the water on that side of the ship.
"There was a cargo net, and we hung on to that -- talking and trying to stay together. Some of the guys were wounded. Ten to guys died that first night. We took the life jackets off the guys that died.
"We were there for 5 1/2 days with no food or water," Kay said. "On the fourth day, we were looking over the horizon. One of the guys thought he saw PT boats. I said, 'No, it's a school of sharks.' Those sharks killed 63 men in about 10 minutes. They came on the side of me, and I'm thrashing.
"They took the guys on either side of me. I guess it wasn't my turn. I was thinking what else could happen -- no food, no water; attacked by sharks; out there for five days.
"One thing you've got to remember," Kay said. "The men who died, died for a cause - to keep our country safe. I felt it was my duty to try to survive.
"When they picked us up, of the 129 only seven were left," he said. "Most of them died from shark attacks or exposure. It was a horrible experience."
Kay said he was 16 years old at the time he enlisted.
"I told them I was 17," he said. "They told me I needed my mother's signature. Well, she said, 'I'm not signing anything. You got two brothers in the service.' But I signed it anyway and went back to the recruiting office.
"I got to tell you a story about my mother," he continued. "In 1944 she went for her citizenship papers. When the judge asked her who was the senator, the vice president, she said she didn't know. When he asked how many stars were on the flag, she said 'Three.'
"The judge said, 'Lady how do expect to get your papers if you don't know this stuff? She reached into her purse to show the judge she had three sons in the service. The judge said, 'Give this lady her papers and take her out to lunch.'
"I want to remind everybody war is war," Kay said. "I take off my hat to anybody who served in the service."
Chuck Lulo, who asked in advance that he be allowed to tell his story without being quoted, brought the audience to tears when he spoke of the massacre in Malmedy, Belgium. Most of the listeners were riveted in their chairs, gasping as he told of the horrors he had witnessed.
Lulo, an Elmwood Park resident, is an Army veteran who served with the 2nd Ranger Battalion.
According to various accounts, on Dec. 17, 1944, approximately 80 American prisoners of war were take to field and shot by German soldiers. On Jan. 14th, 1945, Americans soldiers recaptured the site and recovered 71 bodies.
For Pete Papas, losing one of his younger brothers is something for which he still feels guilty.
"I'm still being treated for posttraumatic stress," the Elmwood Park resident said.
His last mission was his 20th.
"It was over Germany," said Papas, who was a sergeant in the U.S. Army-Air Force.
"I was a radio operator, mechanic and gunner on a B-17 bomber in the 8th Air Force in Europe."
He explained he was assigned to the lead aircraft with a pilot who was a major and a former fighter pilot. The squadron was flying over the city of Zeitz to attack a synthetic oil plant. After finding the target, the planes cannot change position for 13 to 14 minutes while the bombardier sets up his gun sights, Papas explained.
"Usually we fly around 30,000 feet. For this, we were flying lower than 20,000 feet. German anti-aircraft guns were extremely accurate.
"We were just about to reach our target when one of the engines catches fire," he continued. "Then the second engine is knocked out. We dropped our bombs to lighten the load. Then we had a runaway prop on engine No. 2. That means pilot can't pitch the propeller to bite into the air.
"Now the No. 1 engine is the only one pulling us. There was a lot of damage to the plane, smoke in the radio room. We were 80 miles from the target, and our plane was going down.
"We didn't have much time. I pulled the pin and the door flew open, but the guys were just standing there staring out the door.
"I asked them, 'What the hell you waiting for? Go!' I was the farthest from the door and the first to jump out. I was used to being the example for my younger brothers."
Papas said he landed in a soft, plowed field and wound up, unarmed, in a hamlet in Germany. Twenty men, one with rifle to his chest, found him. But a German sergeant told him to put down the gun.
"I believe my life was saved by that German sergeant," Papas said. "I don't believe the German civilians wanted to harm us. They just had to obey."
Papas, who was shot down Nov. 30, 1944, said he ended up in a prisoner of war camp with John Crotty, who was shot down Jan. 14, 1945.
"It was payday, and I needed a haircut," Papas said.
"I came down on ... the coldest day in Germany in 50 years," Crotty added.
Crotty, who lives in Countryside, was a lieutenant in the Army. He served as a navigator on a B-17.
"We had it good," he said of his time in the service prior to becoming a prisoner. "I was in the 8th Air Force, based in England. We had a place to sleep, a warm meal. We didn't go through nearly as much" as the soldiers on the ground.
"But if you got shot down, things changed a bunch," he noted.
Crotty also was assigned to a lead plane.
"We had flack damage," he said. "We had to give up the lead because we were holding everybody back."
Crotty said he, Papas and the other Air Force prisoners were supposed to go to a German Luftwaft camp.
"We got as far as the train depot," Crotty said. "The (Royal Armoured Corp) was bombing, so we were diverted to Buchenwald."
He noted people from all over the were in the camp, including North Africans, Poles and other Eastern Europeans.
"Hitler wanted to have as many POWs as possible to use as a bargaining chip," Crotty said. "They never really trained us how to parachute, and I broke my ankle. It's surprising how you manage to walk when a German shoves a gun in your ribs.
"The Americans stopped at the Elbe River west of Berlin and the Russians stopped at the Oder river East of Berlin," Crotty continued. "The Russians didn't want to release us. When they released some Ukrainian POWs, they put on German uniforms and fought the Russians."
Papas wasn't about to wait for the Russians to release him.
"Let me tell you about leaving camp on my own volition," he said. "I was afraid to stay in that camp, but I needed help. There was a football player from Muskegon, Mich., who spoke Slavic. But he was limping because of shrapnel. I made him a crutch.
"I got along well with the Soviet troops. I was bargaining with (them) when two other fellows overheard us. We all got out the gate in the back of a truck by bargaining with the Soviet solders.
"When the (camp) commander saw, he stopped the truck to question us. We all responded in our respective languages --the guy from New Orleans in French, another guy in Polish, me in Greek."
"You got to keep up morale somehow," Crotty added. "The administration and those in Washington are making mistakes, getting into these wars. Muslims are different. They're not going to make their country a democracy."
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