News-Info-Alerts

To: ALL

From: Andi Wolos & Bob Necci

(POW-MIA InterNetwork)

Re: DASD Jones Southeast Asia Trip Report 4-16Aug

Date: September 12, 2000

DASD Jones Southeast Asia Trip Report 4-16Aug

DASD Jones Southeast Asia Trip Report (Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia) 4-16 Aug 00 PURPOSE: Update Southeast Asian governments on United States accounting efforts and facilitate bilateral cooperation for recovery and investigative operations in Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam.

DISCUSSIONS IN VIETNAM: Meetings were held with Ambassador Peterson; Vice Foreign Minister Nguyen Dinh Bin, Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA); Mr. Nguyen Khanh Toan, Deputy Minister, Ministry of Interior (MOI); MGEN Tran Cong Thin, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the People's Army of Vietnam, Ministry of National Defense (MND); and Mr. Nguyen Manh Hung, Director, Americas Department, MFA. DASD Jones met with Ambassador Peterson to provide him the goals and issues for his discussions with Vietnamese officials. The following issues/topics were discussed with Vietnamese officials:

1. BILATERAL TRUST/COMMITMENT: DASD Jones began each meeting by stressing to Vietnamese officials that U.S. government commitment to accounting for missing Americans in Southeast Asia would continue with the upcoming change in leadership, though the modality in which operations are accomplished may change. He noted that continued bilateral cooperation was needed to resolve difficult and sensitive issues if we are to meet our goal of improving the efficiency and effectiveness of operations. DASD continued by stating that the long, close working relationship between the US and the Vietnamese on the POW/MIA issue has built mutual trust that enables us to discuss without fear of embarrassment topics that in the past have been sensitive to both sides. All Vietnamese officials concurred that the foundation for mutual trust between the U.S. and Vietnam was our working together on POW/MIA accounting and assured the DASD that their efforts to assist the U.S. would continue.

Vietnamese officials expressed their appreciation for US assistance during the floods of the past year. In addition, many of the officials noted that in regards to MIA issues, Vietnam and the US have enjoyed many accomplishments and Vietnam would continue it's utmost effort to recover and repatriate MIAs. Vietnamese officials expressed that improvements in bilateral relations are a direct result of cooperation on the MIA issue and two significant events are a result; the SECDEF visit in March and the signing of the bilateral trade agreement.

2. TRILATERAL OPERATIONS: DASD requested Vietnamese cooperation in providing witnesses and documents to insure the continued effectiveness of trilateral operations to resolve cases in Laos, Cambodia, and the border regions between Vietnam and those two countries. He stressed that to resolve trilateral border cases, leads from a search of Vietnamese historical records were required to provide leads. VFM Bin, MFA, gave assurances that Vietnam would continue to work with us on trilateral investigations and the search for relevant records.

DASD noted that we must also look at how we conduct trilateral investigations in respect to border crossings due to concern for aging witnesses. He suggested a meeting be held between Vietnam and Laos, facilitated by the U.S., to discuss options for witnesses to cross the Vietnam-Lao border at a point nearest to the operating area and in some circumstances use helicopters to transport witnesses/teams to remote areas.

Both MND and MOI reaffirmed Vietnam's long standing position that it is important that all parties respect the sovereignty of all countries, and that failure to do so could harm our joint efforts. The Ministries asserted that it is important to follow proper processes for crossing international boundaries. DASD acknowledged the need to respect international borders and to coordinate closely with immigration offices of each country to ensure that our specialists and witnesses can cross international borders efficiently and ensure that we can carry out trilateral operations effectively. Vietnamese officials confirmed they would consider a change in border crossing procedures, but believed an agreement must be reached between Vietnam and Laos and inferred that US involvement would be needed to negotiate such an agreement.

3. UNILATERAL INVESTIGATIONS: DASD began by praising Vietnam's assistance in our joint investigation and recovery operations and stressed that to account for the missing in Vietnam, continued support from the Vietnamese government through unilateral investigations was required. DASD thanked the MOI for their assistance over the past two years in encouraging village and provincial governments to assist us in our efforts. DASD stated that there was particular interest in finding documents and witnesses who served in Laos and Cambodia during the war and units that served near the border. Of note, MGen Thin, MND, stated that archival research for wartime documents would play a significant role in investigations and stated that Vietnam would like to see fewer bilateral investigations and more unilateral investigations.

4. ARCHIVAL RESEARCH: DASD stated he was pleased with Vietnamese efforts to encourage local provinces to turn in documents that may hold information on missing Americans and encouraged the Vietnamese to continue with these efforts. He emphasized that we wish the Vietnamese to make a greater effort in granting our specialists access to documents concerning Vietnamese operations in areas along the HCM Trail where many of our unresolved cases occurred. DASD expressed disappointment that the staff of the HCM Trail museum did not allow U.S. specialists access to museum records when they visited the museum. Vietnamese gave assurances that Vietnamese experts would continue to do all that they can to provide us access to relevant documents and records.

DASD noted that Vietnamese film officials had formed a partnership with a German firm named Kinewalt International to commercially exploit Vietnamese historical films. He expressed hope that Vietnamese officials would allow a DPMO researcher to work with Vietnamese and Kinewelt film experts to review Vietnamese historical films at some point in the future.

DASD noted that during his visit to Vietnam in December 1999, he visited the Vietnamese 559 Museum (Ho Chi Minh Trail Museum). He appreciated the opportunity to be the first senior USG official allowed access to the museum. During his tour, he learned that the museum did not possess a copy of a "559 Document" (record) that DPMO held. DASD presented SrCol Bien, MND, a color copy of the document produced by DPMO for the Vietnamese 559 museum. In addition, DASD requested Vietnamese cooperation in providing any documents from former POW Camp records.

5. LAST KNOWN ALIVE (LKA)/LIVE SIGHTING INVESTIGATIONS (LSI): DASD reassured Vietnamese officials that solving LKA/LSI discrepancy cases continue to be the U.S. government's highest priority and stressed the need to continue our joint and unilateral recovery efforts to solve these cases. Vietnamese officials provided assurances that Vietnam would continue to do its utmost to resolve difficult cases, but reasserted the long-standing position that Vietnam did not keep American POWs after the war.

6. STORED REMAINS: DASD noted that a segment of the American public continues to believe that Vietnam still holds remains of Americans who were lost during the war. DASD reminded Vietnamese officials that the DPMO "Remains Study" that was aimed at resolving the question of whether Vietnam continues to store remains of Americans went a long way toward answering these questions, but there still were unresolved discrepancies. DASD urged the Vietnamese to provide documents and other information that can help resolve those discrepancies. Vietnamese officials reaffirmed Vietnam's assertions that it did not withhold American prisoners and has repatriated all remains it had recovered. Officials noted that the government of Vietnam would never try to deceive the US on these issues, because to do so would risk losing all credibility in all other bilateral issues, a risk Vietnam cannot take.

7. ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM (OHP): DASD thanked the Vietnamese for their cooperation in our OHP efforts and stressed that time was becoming increasingly important as witnesses grow older. DASD urged the Vietnamese to continue their efforts to exhaust all possible leads.

8. TEAM SECURITY: DASD informed the Vietnamese of his growing concerns for the security of recovery and investigation teams in the field. He stated that he understood that borders in remote areas were poorly defined and that there had been bandit activity in remote areas. He requested Vietnamese assistance in assuring security for field teams and requested the Vietnamese to advise our teams of security concerns prior to deployment. Vietnamese officials agreed that security issues in border regions were a concern and that the U.S. and Vietnam must work to ensure that bandit activity does not interfere with recovery/investigative operations.

9. AGENT ORANGE: VFM Bin stated that the U.S. government must accept its responsibility for resolving the consequences of the war, specifically those related to Vietnamese veterans and victims of Agent Orange. He noted that two years ago the Vietnamese government established a fund administered by the Vietnamese Red Cross to assist victims of Agent Orange. He noted that many countries other than the United States, many non-government organizations, and private persons have contributed to that fund. He expressed the opinion that this fund is a channel through which the USG could provide assistance. DASD noted that though Agent Orange was not in the purview of his mission, he was happy to learn that the USG has agreed to explore joint measures to clean up Agent Orange contamination around former US bases, and that another senior DoD delegation had visited Vietnam to discuss this issue. DASD added, however, that scientific and technical agreements are needed to address joint research and other Agent Orange issues.

10. UNEXPLODED ORDNANCE (UXO): DASD expressed sympathies for the recent deaths of Vietnamese farmers from mines left over from the war. He reiterated the SECDEF's promise from his recent visit to Vietnam to explore initiatives on the de-mining issue.

11. TECHNICAL ASSESSMENT TEAM: DASD expressed appreciation for the recent cooperation on the Technical Assessment Team investigations into the feasibility of excavating unique cases near highways and railroads. He continued to stress that it is because of our bilateral cooperation that we are able to tackle these unique cases and possibly bring closure for families. He noted that this was a welcome step forward in our efforts to resolve these "difficult" cases. DASD hopes this type of cooperation will continue.

12. NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DINNER: DASD hosted a dinner for members of the SRV National Assembly. During the evening, DASD reinforced and assured the Vietnamese of the U.S. government's commitment to accounting for missing Americans and reviewed all the current issues as discussed with other Vietnamese officials.

15. PRESS EVENT IN HANOI: Concluding his policy oversight visit to Vietnam, DASD held a press availability event in the US Embassy Rose Garden, Hanoi. Reuters, Associated Press, and several Vietnamese and Chinese newspapers were present. DASD reiterated that the US government commitment to the accounting effort would continue. He discussed the issues he raised with the Vietnamese government, noting the cooperation and openness in the current bilateral relationship. He noted the recent successes in our bilateral relationship, as evidenced by the visit of the U.S. SECDEF in March and the recent signing of the bilateral trade agreement. He discussed the cooperation of the VNOSMP with the U.S. recovery effort, noting that without their assistance closure for American families would not happen. He sighted the recent repatriation of five sets of remains from the last JFA as an indicator of our joint success.

DISCUSSIONS IN LAOS: Meetings were held with Charge d'Affairs Karen Stewart; H.E. Ambassador Done Somvorachit, Ministry of Foreign Affairs; General Ai, Ministry of National Defense; and Mr. Bounkeut Sangssomsak, Principle Secretary to the Foreign Minister, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

1. MEETING WITH CHARGE d'AFFAIRS KAREN STEWART: DASD Jones met with Charge d'Affairs Karen Stewart and the U.S. Embassy country team to discuss his upcoming office calls with the Lao Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) and Ministry of National Defense (MND) and to gain embassy insight on current political and security affairs in Laos. DASD opened the discussion by asking Ms. Stewart about the current security environment in Laos and her opinion as to its possible effect on MIA recovery operations. Embassy officials informed the DASD on the current state of affairs in Laos. DASD noted that during his last trip Gen Ai, MND, had promised to provide MND personnel to augment JFA teams and English training for additional Lao officials to assist JFA teams. DASD was pleased that the State Department had allocated $50,000 in their FY01 budget for POW/MIA program English training.

The following issues/topics were discussed with Lao officials:

2. U.S.-LAO BILATERAL RELATIONS: DASD Jones opened his discussions with Lao officials by reaffirming the U.S. government's commitment to the accounting issue and that it would continue to be a core issue in the bilateral relationship between the U.S. and Laos. He stressed that though there would soon be a change in our presidential administration, the emphasis on accounting for missing Americans would not change and the issue would remain a stand alone humanitarian issue. He continued by stating that the MIA issue is a high priority with the American people and the U.S. Congress and the two nations must continue to work together to develop ways to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of operations. DASD noted that though we have had many successes in the past, there is still much to do in our efforts to provide closure for the families of missing Americans.

Lao officials stated that they understand the importance of the issue to the American people and he hoped both countries could work together to bring closure to the issue as soon as possible. Both Lao MFA and MND indicated that other ministries would have to be consulted in the approval process of the issues the DASD raised.

3. OPERATIONAL ASSESSMENT MEETING: DASD stressed to Lao officials the importance of the upcoming operations assessment meeting to assess operations in Laos in September. He stated that the meeting in Hawaii, hosted by the JTF-FA, was significant in laying the foundation for how we conduct operations under the new administration. DASD discussed the core areas of concern that the two nations must come to an agreement on during the operational assessment meeting. He continued stating the number one goal is to increase the pace of operations and outlined the major issues for negotiation, as follows:

4. JFA TEAM SIZE LIMITATIONS: DASD raised the issue of increasing the cap on JFA personnel from 40 to 50 to allow for an additional recovery team. DASD reflected that the initial cap was 30 and revised to 40 in 1993 and that he believed it was now time to reassess raising the cap to 50. MND indicated that it had no problems with the proposal, and that MND would submit the proposal to MFA for consideration and decision. Mr. Bounkeut, MFA, responded that to raise the 40 man cap to 50 would require additional assistance from MFA/MND and that there were not many English speaking Lao officials, but perhaps we could meet halfway.

5. NORTH-SOUTH RECOVERY PLAN: DASD discussed revising the current agreement on north to south recovery plan to allow flexibility in scheduling. DASD noted that though the current plan was agreed upon many years ago, he believed it was time to assess the operations procedure and allow flexibility to conduct recovery operations at sites outside of the north-south regime when time was critical to ensuring success. Regarding revision of the north-south protocol, Gen Ai stated that the process should be carried out as previously agreed upon by both sides. He did not think there would be a problem changing the procedure, but would need to discuss the possibility of changing the north to south excavation plan with other ministries. He did say, however, that the decision would have to be made by MFA.

6. JFA LENGTH EXTENSIONS: DASD proposed flexibility for extending JFAs 5-10 days when the on site anthropologist determined that additional days will enable the team to complete the excavation and close the site. This would eliminate the need to reopen the site during a future JFA. MND stated that extending JFAs a day or two was possible, but MFA would have to be consulted for a decision. However, there must be assurances that the end of the extension closed the particular case in question. MFA stated that they would take the proposal under consideration.

7. ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM: DASD discussed the need for improving the Oral History Program in Laos. He stressed that investigators needed access to military members with experience during the Vietnam War. Gen Ai stated that many witnesses have been reluctant to come forward, many others no longer had memory of incidents during the war and many of those who would have information were deceased. He also stated that we must remember that often there are two sides to every story, American and Lao. He continued to say that the Lao government had released a document to the Lao people requesting anyone with information about missing Americans to come forward, but to date no citizens have provided valid information. He also informed the DASD that many people pass false information in hopes of receiving money from the USG. The Lao government trying to ensure that only valid information is presented to US investigators.

8. CROSS BORDER MEDEVAC FLIGHTS: DASD discussed his concerns for the medical welfare of serious injured personnel. Emergency MEDEVAC flights are currently not allowed to fly across the border to the nearest medical facility in Thailand, but must cross the border via land checkpoints. DASD stressed his concerns that in a life threatening situation the current procedure may take too long. DASD requested standing flight approval for emergency MEDEVAC flights to fly direct to Thailand.

Gen Ai stated that MND had to deny the request because of the current agreement between Laos and Thailand, administered by a joint Lao-Thai border commission, which prohibited direct flights into each other's country without prior coordination and approval. He further stated that Lao-Thai agreement only allowed border crossings at designated international border crossing sites. Thus, he could not approve any change to the current operational procedures. During discussions with MFA, Mr. Bounkeut stated that the MEDEVAC issue was most difficult as it was a multi-national issue and would require negotiation with Thailand. He did say that it could be looked at, but may take some time to resolve. DASD asked if the U.S. could assist by facilitating a meeting between the Lao and Thai governments. Mr. Bounkeut said that this first step should be explored, but also would require internal coordination between the Lao Ministry of Public Safety, MND, and other ministries.

9. LAO PERSONNEL AUGMENTATION: During discussions at MND, DASD queried Gen. Ai about his promise to assign additional personnel to assist in the MIA issue. DASD noted that he understood the Lao restriction due to the availability of English speaking personnel. He was pleased to announce that through joint efforts with the U.S. Dept. of State we were making progress on developing an English language training program for Lao officials who assist the U.S. in the MIA issue. He continued to report that funding had been allocated to commence English training in 2001 and that he wanted MND assurances that graduates of the training would be assigned to assist our accounting efforts.

10. UNILATERAL INVESTIGATIONS: DASD expressed appreciation for the successful Lao unilateral investigations of the caves that may have held American prisoners during the war. He stated that the investigations were conducted professionally and he was pleased with the results and hoped that the Lao would continue to investigate the caves in Savannakhet. DASD stressed that unilateral efforts by the Lao were crucial to finding leads and bringing closure to the accounting issue.

11. DIRECT FLIGHTS FOR DEPLOYMENT/REDEPLOYMENT AIRCRAFT: DASD stressed his disappointment that aircraft deploying JFA teams to Savannakhet continued to be required to conduct a stop in Vientiane to clear customs/immigration versus flying direct to Savannakhet. DASD reflected that two years ago Lao MFA said they would look at removing the requirement for deployment/redeployment aircraft to stop in Vientiane for customs inspection and allow direct flights to Savannakhet. DASD continued by proposing a customs/immigration officer be pre-sited in Savannakhet on U.S. expense to conduct the inspection. Gen Ai believed the current operating procedure for the aircraft to clear customs in Vientiane should be maintained. During discussions with MFA officials, Mr. Bounkeut inferred that direct flights to Savannakhet were difficult as it was a matter of principal. Currently Vientiane is the only international airport in Laos and if the Lao allow the U.S. to fly directly to Savannakhet, than other nations may request to do the same. DASD proposed that further discussion on this issue be addressed at the upcoming Operations Assessment meetings in September.

12. TRILATERAL INVESTIGATIONS: DASD reflected on the successes of the trilateral witness program between Vietnam, Laos and the U.S., but stressed that all parties concerned needed to look at the current operating procedure that requires witnesses to cross the Lao-Vietnam border at specified locations. DASD passed his concerns that many of the witnesses were elderly and allowing flexibility for witnesses to cross the border at a location nearest the operation site would not only expedite the investigation, but also increase the safety of the witnesses. DASD proposed that the U.S. facilitate dialogue between Laos and Vietnam on this issue. He informed the MFA that the Vietnamese indicated during his visit that they were open to discussion on this topic.

13. PRESS EVENT IN VIENTIANE: DASD held a press availability event at the Lao Plaza Hotel in Vientiane. Both Lao print and broadcast media reporters were present along with a print media photographer. The Lao media representatives were provided with copies of the DPMO fact sheet outlining progress achieved to date in our effort to account for American personnel missing in Laos. DASD opened with a short statement in which he thanked the Lao people and government for their assistance in this effort over the past twenty years. He pointed out that the POW/MIA accounting effort is a core issue in U.S.-Lao bilateral relations that will continue to be a high priority issue for Americans for years to come. DASD stated that he was very pleased with the outcome of the meetings he had just conducted with the Lao Ministry of Defense and Ministry of Foreign Affairs and that he looked forward to being able to host a visit to the United States later this month by Lao Vice Foreign Minister Phongsavath.

DISCUSSIONS IN CAMBODIA: Meetings were held with Mr. Alexander Arvizu, U.S. Embassy Deputy Chief of Mission; LTG Pol Saroeun and the Cambodia POW/MIA Committee. Scheduled meeting with Prime Minister Hun Sen was canceled due to the illness of the Prime Minister. DASD Jones met with Mr. Arvizu to discuss USG accounting efforts and issues in Cambodia. DASD informed the DCM of the issues that he would be discussing with Cambodian officials. Topics discussed with LTG Saroeun and the POW/MIA Committee include the following:

1. RECOVERY/INVESTIGATION OPERATIONS: During the Cambodian operations assessment meeting held in March 2000, LTG Saroeun proposed the re-opening of JTF-FA Detachment 4 in Phnom Penh. DASD answered this proposal by informing the General that currently there was not a required workload in Cambodia to justify the re-establishment of Detachment 4. He added that Detachment 1 in Bangkok will hold oversight of recovery operations in Cambodia and will continue to conduct investigative and liaison visits to Cambodia monthly. Detachment 1 will be able to meet all operational requirements.

2. UNILATERAL / OHP: DASD stressed that Cambodian efforts to produce leads were required to account for missing personnel in Cambodia. Former Khmer Rouge members who served along the border areas with Vietnam during the war may hold information on American losses. DASD requested assistance in locating and gaining access for Stony Beach to interview former Khmer Rouge members. LTG Saroeun stated that most of the information his committee had received from witnesses was not credible. He also informed the DASD that many of the former Khmer Rouge members resided in hiding in the "countryside" and additional investigative work was required to gain access to them. LTG Saroeun promised to continue Cambodian unilateral efforts to produce leads.

3. TRILATERAL INVESTIGATIONS: DASD stressed to LTG Saroeun that trilateral investigations were key to finding leads on missing Americans in Cambodia. He informed the General that the Vietnamese had agreed to assist in searching for documents and providing witnesses who served in Cambodia during the war. DASD also discussed the urgency of the program due to the aging of witnesses. He also reiterated his concerns for their safety and requested Cambodian assistance in allowing witnesses to cross the Cambodian-Vietnam border at the nearest location to the operating area. He informed the Cambodians that Vietnam was open to discussing border crossing/immigration procedures with trilateral participants, Laos and Cambodia. DASD proposed the U.S. facilitate a meeting between Cambodia and Vietnam to discuss border crossings. LTG Saroeun agreed to investigate holding such a meeting with U.S. assistance.

4. ANALYST CASE REVIEW: In an effort to produce leads and determine what next steps should be taken in accounting for missing Americans in Cambodia, the DASD proposed U.S. and Cambodian analysts meet to review all remaining cases in Cambodia. After completion of a joint case review, analysts should be able to determine what assistance is required from the Vietnamese. These requirements can then be presented to the Vietnamese. LTG Saroeun believed that the proposed meeting and assistance from the Vietnamese was a good idea and endorsed scheduling an analyst review in autumn 2000.

5. ARCHIVAL RESEARCH: DASD thanked the committee for their assistance to Mr. Lee Manning, DPMO archivist, during his archival research mission in the spring of 2000. DASD also informed LTG Saroeun that in addition to researching the Cambodian National Archives, Mr. Manning worked with U.S. Embassy public affairs in soliciting the Cambodia media in printing or televising requests for citizens to come forward with information on missing Americans. The effort is an attempt to draw on possible unknown witnesses. DASD queried LTG Saroeun on whether his committee has seen any media on the subject, and if so, have any witnesses come forward. LTG Saroeun stated he would speak to the appropriate Ministries to ensure the press prints the request for information from citizens on any POW/MIA issues. DASD concluded by requesting Cambodian cooperation in allowing access to archives in the future.

6. PRESS EVENT IN PHNOM PENH: DASD held a press availability event at the Le Royal Hotel with the assistance of the U.S. Embassy public affairs office. During the event DASD reiterated to members of the Cambodia press that the U.S. government's commitment to accounting for missing Americans from the Vietnam War would continue with the upcoming change in administration. He noted the recent successes in recovery operations in Koh Tang that lead to identifications of missing Americans. He stressed that this success story would not be possible without the assistance of the Cambodian government.